Opinion. BMJ: Long covid: research must guide future management, 2021, David

Andy

Retired committee member
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Long covid: research must guide future management by Anthony S David, UCL

"Will the new long-covid multidisciplinary teams be the setting of a never-ending journey round in circles or will they have the courage to accept uncertainty? Increasing evidence shows organ damage and pathological changes post covid, and we must be aware of many patients who have severe and debilitating fatigue and have not been believed or offered much help at all. But we must also remain open minded that some multi-symptom presentations may not be due to hitherto unidentified multi-system pathologies (with negative investigations), but a singular mechanism of heightened awareness of bodily sensations and objective malfunctions.7 It is a hypothesis and therefore provisional, but if articulated well in a clinical setting, with humility yet optimism, can lead to agreed new ways forward, which may be beneficial.

The injection of funding into this area will hopefully help guide future management of a large number of people with long covid-19 and, with luck, might even help many more with the broad range of post-viral conditions."

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n3109
 
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but a singular mechanism of heightened awareness of bodily sensations and objective malfunctions.7 It is a hypothesis and therefore provisional, but if articulated well in a clinical setting, with humility yet optimism, can lead to agreed new ways forward, which may be beneficial.

Unless you can tell us what this singular mechanism is and how to confirm it - no.
 
It is a hypothesis and therefore provisional,
And always has been.

but if articulated well in a clinical setting, with humility yet optimism,
Yes, the only problem is finding the right marketing pitch.

...can lead to agreed new ways forward, which may be beneficial.
Get to robust RCTs to safely establish that, before implementing it in the clinic. Or get out of the game. :grumpy:
 
And always has been.


Yes, the only problem is finding the right marketing pitch.


Get to robust RCTs to safely establish that, before implementing it in the clinic. Or get out of the game. :grumpy:

It would sure be nice to see an honest attempt at decoupling the effects of negotiation tactics from the actual interventions in these trials. Decision-making is (arguably) one of the more robust disciples within psychology in terms of the potential of setting up actual testable hypotheses, but I rarely see it mentioned.
 
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Anthony David, who wrote an article with Simon Wessely setting the stage for the decades of failure dealing with post-infectious chronic illness has things to say. They represent very well the complete detachment from reality that operates in this space, how our lives are just abstract distant things to them. It isn't just that decades were lost to this nonsense, it's that millions of lives were sacrificed in the process, with absolutely nothing to show for it, which David leaves unsaid but clearly true.

And what does David concludes from it? That we should still respect their failure and keep trying anyway. Or something like this. Rage-inducing coming from someone looking smugly at the disaster he caused and liking it way too much. Lip service to research is just that, lip service. Hollow, self-serving.

The main argument seems to be that if a common diagnosis is found, it should be detached from its cause. That is if thrombosis is found, it should be categorized as thrombosis, without a link to having been caused by Covid. So you leave almost nothing connected to its cause, erasing it in the process. Which is the whole problem with inventing CFS in the first place. So as usual pushing the problem as the solution to itself.

Also: management? WTH? Still with the mindset that all this is is managing complaints.


Long covid: research must guide future management
https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n3109

In 1988, colleagues and I published an article in The BMJ called “Post viral fatigue: time for a new approach.”2 This was an attempt by young researchers to make the case that viewing the syndrome through a more unified mental-physical health lens and epidemiological orientation might counteract the increasingly polarised debate between patients with post-viral fatigue or myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME) and their doctors. We called for a clearer operational case definition, a biopsychosocial approach, and an end to emotive language all round. A generation later and our calls remain current.
...
We must not fall into the trap set by all “unexplained” symptoms: endless investigation by clinicians who then impart the “good news” that the test was normal. Because there is no accompanying positive explanation for the symptoms, this is perceived as implying, “it’s not real” or somehow worse, that “it’s all in your mind.”

Imagine the hubris of saying the above after having spent decades saying exactly this, pushing this, forcing this down our throats and attacking is for begging for this nightmare to end.

But we must also remain open minded that some multi-symptom presentations may not be due to hitherto unidentified multi-system pathologies (with negative investigations), but a singular mechanism of heightened awareness of bodily sensations and objective malfunctions.7 It is a hypothesis and therefore provisional, but if articulated well in a clinical setting, with humility yet optimism, can lead to agreed new ways forward, which may be beneficial.

This article is the polar opposite of humility, it's the height of hubris. David would do well to disappear in the sunset instead of showing just how gigantic his hubris is, we already know, and Wessely's.

I will be responding to this article. I hope many others do. The stream of lies has to end.
 
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Merged thread

Long covid: research must guide future management

Anthony S David. Professor of Mental Health

Back in February 2021, the UK government announced that £18.5m is being invested into clinical research into long covid by UK Research and Innovation (UKRI).1 In light of public and medical concern about the long term effects of covid-19 infection, this is welcome.

In 1988, colleagues and I published an article in The BMJ called “Post viral fatigue: time for a new approach.”2 This was an attempt by young researchers to make the case that viewing the syndrome through a more unified mental-physical health lens and epidemiological orientation might counteract the increasingly polarised debate between patients with post-viral fatigue or myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME) and their doctors. We called for a clearer operational case definition, a biopsychosocial approach, and an end to emotive language all round. A generation later and our calls remain current.

Bodies including the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (NICE), the Scottish Intercollegiate guidelines network (SIGN), the Royal College of General Practitioners (RCGP) and the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the US have all attempted to operationally define persistent symptoms and disability after acute covid-19 illness.3 I think the term used by NICE—post-covid-19 syndrome—is a reasonable starting point. NICE’s definition includes the phrase “not attributable to alternative diagnoses.” This seems obvious, and yet is critical, as this should not be a catch-all category where any disorder with unexplained symptoms can be attached. For example, if a patient recovers from the acute respiratory illness, but remains short of breath and is found to have pulmonary fibrosis or pericarditis by accepted criteria, or, experiences brain fog and mental slowing, later linked to microvascular infarcts on MRI—can they be removed from the post-covid-19 cohort? I would say yes. Their condition may be unusual, and it may be serious, but it is not mysterious. These conditions add to the tally of morbidity caused by covid-19, but not to post-covid-19 syndrome. This, however, depends on patients getting access to the right assessments and investigations and there have been many calls from long covid patients to ensure that they have proper medical assessment of their symptoms.

More at link (opinion piece no abstract) https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n3109
 
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I felt the urge to write my uncensored thoughts on the idea of "heightened body awareness" supposedly causing symptoms.

I find this idea implausible and the authors come across as very confused.

The idea is described vaguely, so we have to guess what exactly the proponents have in mind which suggests that what they have in mind is not defensible or that they are not able to even clearly fomulate their thoughts.

I'm sure we all know the phenomenon of thinking of something that caused unpleasant sensations in the body and then reliving that feeling (like hearing a mosquito causes one to have heightened awareness of sensations consistent with mosquito bites, and this can make one feel a little itchy in some places. My guess is that the authors propose that this kind of mechanism is the basis for symptoms. The experience of chronic illness bears no resemblance to this. One would suspect that this explanation is being proposed because the person is confused about what having the illness is actually like. The symptoms I experience do not depend on my thoughts or awareness. If they did it would be obvious just like in the mosquito bite scenario. The symptoms would be predictable but they are frustratingly unpredictable. The symptoms would be very mild and transient but they are severe and chronic (there is a huge discrepancy between what heightened awareness is able to cause and what is being experienced). I do not believe that heightened awareness can cause more than very mild symptoms, and I think it can cause only a limited range of symptoms.

My instinctive response to annoying chronic symptoms is also to ignore them for a while. This seems to be a very common response which contradicts the proposed heightened awareness mechanism.

There also seems to be a conceptual confusion between "having symptoms and noticing them more when paying attention to them" and "making symptoms appear out of nowhere via some vague cognitive mechanism". They seem to take the first phenomeon as evidence for the second one while this is not a valid conclusion.

Finally, this idea seems to lacks a scientific basis and it's disturbing that these ideas are being applied in healthcare when there doesn't actually seem to be any evidence. By lack a scientific basis I mean that there doesn't seem to be any experiment showing that "heightened awareness" could cause anything resembling chronic illness.

Common sense also tells me that if thoughts or cognition in general were the main cause of a chronic illness, speaking with the affected person would make it quickly very clear to anyone that these thoughts and cognitions were extremely abnormal (not just questionable or probably incorrect like the many cures or ideas about the cause of the illness that circulate).
 
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It's also strange that the authors seem to believe that their approach is a solution to patients not being believed, when they are essentially saying that patients are imagining a problem and that this act of imagination creates symptoms. These people cause the problem they think they're solving.
 
Young Researcher

He says they were “young researchers”, which is what you might say if about to recant your previous ideology, or at the very least to tell an amusing anecdote about something you were wrong about.

It really doesn’t work if you’re then gonna explain that as an elderly researcher you stand by everything “young researcher” you promoted as an inexperienced newbie.

So you learned nothing significant over your 30year career?

You are also very proud to of learned nothing much?

Perhaps you weren’t trying to make discovery or …..?


No matter how “young” a researcher you were when you began, it’s not relevant. Not if you’re still the same corporate/ government propagandist you were at the beginning at -what, we can all hope and pray is soon to be -the end.

Not when those who were sick at the beginning of your reign are as just as sick at the end.
Not when in over 30 year the prognosis is no better. There are no treatments. Not when thanks to you, those getting sick today have if anything worse treatment from their HCP than when you began.


You were never “young” you were always a vampire.


Draining the life out of us. Wanna know why we are all so unusually tired?

It is you. Sucking with the unrelenting vigour of your kind upon our life’s essence.

You and your ancient mates.
 
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It's also strange that the authors seem to believe that their approach is a solution to patients not being believed, when they are essentially saying that patients are imagining a problem and that this act of imagination creates symptoms. These people cause the problem they think they're solving.

They do cause the problem, indeed they do. You lay out how they do this very starkly.

Id add, I don’t think there is a reason to think that they actually think that they are solving it.

We have what this researcher says about themselves, that a problem they were trying to address was doctors disbelief of their patients reports.

We would then need to assume that this researcher meant that he aimed to reduce the doctors disbelief in patients. But we have no reason to make this assumption.

No reason at all to take this researchers account of his own intent seriously. On any level. The evidence so conclusively points to other and opposing motivations.

Such as smoothing the path for doctors to convey their contempt and disbelief in a far more disciplined way. A superficial layer of varnish to make doctors existing prejudice appear to be simply an extension of medical knowledge. Rather than personally and politically harmful beliefs and actions on doctors part. A way to make rejection of the patients fundamental right to healthcare, more acceptable to the general public. A new language and terminology of plausible-ish sounding rational for denial of care. A development that would make it ever harder for patients to challenge, a unified front. The pseudoscientific model for denial of care and the protection of certain economic interests.

If the researcher wishes to reduce a doctors skepticism or hostility regarding a certain group of patients, the researcher simply does not go about doing all in his power to enhance the division.

If at first he meant to heal and yet he was incompetent and instead caused harm?

We all make mistakes. As a person with ME I make mistakes every single day multiple times a day. I have difficulty understanding words and numbers and that means I get confused and can’t work stuff out. It’s terrifying. It is very serious. I cannot find away to look after my own interests when my competency is so reduced.

However that is not what is happening here. The researcher is not confused. He is sewing confusion. This requires effort.

To accomplish your own goals while misleading others you must remain crystal clear on what these actually are. On what is at stake.

The researcher doesn’t at any time demonstrate credible scientific reasoning. He may or may not possess the skills to do so if called upon, we will never know. Scientific endeavour is not the task he has taken on.

He has had 30years to course correct. If the results he gained were not those he intended. He has not done so.

A whole life’s work built on the betrayal of your own humanity. A willing recruit. An ancient bargain. Comfortable living and accolades. Gained at the direct expense of those made expendable, sick and poor. Taking up the role of the enforcer. To exclude the non-wealthy well most of your fellow people, from access healthcare. All this on behalf and to the enrichment of the already unimaginably wealthy. This is hard to justify.

Why not look back and imagine you were once a ‘young gun’ bravely applying your intellect to a ‘new’ problem?
 
I did not expect responses to be approved quickly given the holidays, but it's been long enough. I don't know if I'm the only one who submitted one, but at this point I assume it was rejected. No responses published, which is disappointing given how central these people have been in the debacle that lead to Long Covid, and how ridiculous it is for David to publish the exact same rhetoric as 3+ decades ago as if they were new.

BMJ continues to be a bad influence on medical science, it's sad to see. Probably derives from the BMA being just as bad, pushing the damn BPS model like it's a religion. With iconic institutions like this, no wonder medicine is struggling so badly.

Response I submitted to BMJ in response to David's letter said:
As David mentioned in this letter, in 1988 he and colleagues put forward an alternative model of post-infectious chronic illness. Since that time, that model has come to dominate completely, becoming the de facto standard of care, although generally under the generic label of "chronic fatigue", a vague construct invented explicitly to be neutral in etiology, unrelated to infectious diseases or any other cause.

Since that time, this "biopsychosocial" model has come to so thoroughly dominate the medical zeitgeist that serious research efforts have been made impossible, even maligned as pointless, since "all these patients need is positive thoughts and exercise", the very model David, Wessly and Pelosi proposed in 1988 and have promoted relentlessly since. Such assertions made many headlines, in those very words in the UK, following the PACE trial, despite having since been found to have misrepresented its actual results: no difference in outcome at long-term follow-up on all measures. The same results as hundreds of similar trials of the same model.

So it is not surprising that long haulers were met with this standard model, as most were told variously that their illness is impossible, that “viruses don’t do that”, with hundreds of "rehabilitation" clinics having sprung up since, all based on this generic model of deconditioning as a result of illness “beliefs”. Even in countries that did not formally implement this model, who instead chose to simply deny the existence of this category of illness, a distinction without a difference.

This biopsychosocial model is especially dominant in the UK, where it has been used in practice since even before 2007, when it was encoded into NICE guidelines despite a lack of evidence. Omitted in this letter is the fact that this model, seemingly presented as “hypothesis and therefore provisional” that has yet to be tried in True Scotsman form, has actually been pushed forward into practice, despite strong opposition from the patient community, has had comfortably more than a decade to prove itself, and was since invalidated by major medical authorities on no less than 3 occasions, the last of which happened mere weeks ago, when NICE recognized that the entire body of evidence supporting it was at best of "low quality", and at worse of "very low quality". All of it.

In addition to NICE’s latest evaluation, the American NIH and CDC have also dropped those recommendations in recent years, having found the evidence lacking in all aspects, the NIH even asserting that continued use of the Oxford criteria underpinning it “impairs progress and causes harm”. In an extensive process, NICE examined no less than 200 trials of various "biopsychosocial" rehabilitative strategies, mostly named CBT or GET. It's not clear why this needed to be tested hundreds of times over, but the fact remains that all relied on open label trials with non-specific subjective end-points, used vague questionnaires of little relevance to the illness, and were all run by people with very strong therapeutic bias towards this model. And none were specific to ME/CFS, never featuring the hallmark PEM, post-exertional malaise, that is also common in Long Covid.

Which makes David's assertion that this model, presented as a provisional hypothesis, has yet to be tried and tested simply impossible to explain, as does the lack of editorial concern for what is a very glaring omission. The evidence for this "biopsychosocial" model of illness has the peculiar habit of existing or not depending on how sold the audience is to its assumptions and beliefs.

For decades proponents of this model, especially David’s co-author Simon Wessely, have been openly antagonistic to the ME patient community, at times writing articles in the media maligning severely ill patients for rejecting consent for what is, quite frankly, a bizarre model based on ideological short legs.

David also writes: “It is no surprise that covid-19 has become the focus for a renewed debate about post-viral fatigue. It happens every time a pathogen is discovered or re-discovered”. There have in fact been several epidemics since 1988, including Swine flu and SARS, both of which have left similarly neglected trails of chronic illness, neither of which raised any such debate. In fact looking at the long-term consequences of both epidemics, one finds nothing but the same vague mentions of mental health, if at all. There is a clear taboo in medicine over this issue, the mere mention bringing some to foam at the mouth for inexplicable reasons.

Predictably, the long hauler community has reacted the same way to this model, instead largely thankful to the ME community for giving them the information health care systems have long rejected, and have now since come to begrudgingly accept to varying degrees.

That the long hauler community shares the same concerns, reasonable and legitimate, and voices the same criticism is no surprise, as periodically repeated claims of a small vocal minority have always been at odds with reality. The media campaign to malign the ME patient community may be the only success under its belt.

The ME patient community has always opposed this paradigm for rational and legitimate reasons. To suggest otherwise, that millions stubbornly refuse safe and effective treatment for life-ruining illness out of mere disdain for psychology, is preposterous to the point of farcical. This is why consent matters. When it is seen as a challenge, as is evident in the biopsychosocial ME literature, legitimate criticism gets ignored and harm follows. To have ignored millions of those complaints for decades is a shame medicine will have to bear forever.

Long Covid has shown that even a mild infection can trigger this kind of illness, even in very fit individuals who were never at any point bedbound or inactive enough to be clinically deconditioned. There is simply no rational argument to maintain that deconditioning is a valid cause, given these reasons, in addition to the simple fact that millions live healthy but sedentary lives, sometimes even paralyzed and largely immobile, without suffering any of those symptoms. Nevermind that deconditioning does not fluctuate, a feature common to ME and Long Covid and should have prevented it from ever taking hold, had common sense prevailed.

It is also a simple fact that many countries that did not bother doing more than categorically denying such an illness even exists show no evidence of different outcomes. Or put another way, the tens of millions of pounds the UK have spent on this clinical model did no differently than nothing at all. A fact confirmed again and again by trials and clinical data showing no difference in outcomes wherever and whenever one looks.

What Long Covid has confirmed beyond a doubt is that this is an illness from which people recover at different lengths, whether it be weeks, months or years there is no explanation yet, and that the benefits of David’s and Wessely’s behavioral treatment model have always consisted of simply attributing credit for natural recoveries and the bumps of relapsing-remitting patterns, a mere illusion that is easy to catch from even a slightly rigorous methodology. One so obvious that even thousands of brain-fogged amateurs who can barely remain standing could spot it easily.

I must add to this reply concerns about BMJ's editorial standards. It is inexplicable that David’s letter could be published with the many glaring omissions I mentioned above, especially the fact that the very model proposed here, yet again, has been invalidated by UK health authorities, yet again, a mere few weeks ago. There is simply no excuse for such a lax editorial process, as it grossly violates both the letter and spirit of the so-called duty of candor. It is hard to determine who bears the most blame, the author who misrepresented the facts, or an editorial process that is seemingly indifferent to it.

From the perspective of a patient who has been failed by this treatment model, it is clear that medical knowledge is not even half-way through, that there is far more to learn ahead. It is the height of hubris to attribute myriad vacuous psychological causes to complex immunological phenomena on the basis that medicine has checked everything. It hasn't, it can't. Not only does the technology not exist, the knowledge doesn't exist either. Yet. It can happen, but not by a chance, and certainly not by entertaining the same ideas in infinite loops. Unfortunately, this very same god-the-gaps rhetoric is happening yet again with Long Covid, and the BMJ yet again presents old ideas as somehow new and untested.

This can all change. Long Covid can be the catalyst for a real revolution in health care, one that finally applies the main lesson of the AIDS crisis: nothing about us without us. A lesson that has never been accepted, medicine remains very top-down and paternalistic, still scolding neglected patients for its own confusion. It takes real humility to accept having been wrong, David instead chooses to be wrong all over again, with the same intent and purpose, a grand display of the same hubris that guaranteed the failure of this model long before 1988.

I hereby beg the BMJ to have such humility, now and in the future. The chronic illness patient community has been wronged and failed, as NICE and the NIH have timidly recognized. You can be catalysts for change, and it begins by telling the simple truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Please do much better, our lives literally depend on it and millions have been failed already.
 
I did not expect responses to be approved quickly given the holidays, but it's been long enough. I don't know if I'm the only one who submitted one, but at this point I assume it was rejected. No responses published, which is disappointing given how central these people have been in the debacle that lead to Long Covid, and how ridiculous it is for David to publish the exact same rhetoric as 3+ decades ago as if they were new.

BMJ continues to be a bad influence on medical science, it's sad to see. Probably derives from the BMA being just as bad, pushing the damn BPS model like it's a religion. With iconic institutions like this, no wonder medicine is struggling so badly.
Can you quote tweet this in response ?
 
Can you quote tweet this in response ?
I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean reply with this response to the BMJ where they tweeted the David letter? It's a bit long for a tweet thread. Actually kind of long for a response but there was much to say. But I could link to the rejected letter.
 
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