Petition: S4ME 2023 - Cochrane: Withdraw the harmful 2019 Exercise therapy for CFS review

Discussion in 'Petitions' started by Hutan, Sep 4, 2023.

  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

    Messages:
    22,309
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
  2. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,828
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    We have had a drop off in signatures over recent days:
    upload_2023-10-4_13-53-45.png

    We are hearing from some organisations that they have been told that Cochrane is going to publish something shortly, and that therefore there is no need to support the petition or the open letter. Of course, the removal of the 2019 review might be scheduled for a few weeks, and that would be wonderful.

    But I think it's much more likely that Cochrane will continue to want to maintain the status quo while a replacement review is worked on. And frankly, while Garner and his like continue to be powerful in Cochrane, and while so many of the Cochrane published reviews have the flaw of assuming that subjective outcomes in unblinded trials is just fine, the prospect of a completed and unbiased Cochrane Exercise Therapy Review for ME/CFS anytime soon seems rather remote to me. Even under the best scenario, a replacement review will take a year or so to complete.

    So, to say 'great, Cochrane are promising to publish something shortly, there's no longer a problem', is, I think, naive. If an organisation that you have some involvement hasn't supported the open letter yet and you have the capacity, please do explain things to them.
     
    Solstice, Kitty, alktipping and 30 others like this.
  3. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,493
    Location:
    Australia
    I don't think we should back off at all until that damn thing is actually withdrawn completely, and an explicit note added redirecting visitors to the NICE and IOM guidelines, at least until Cochrane's re-review is actually done.

    Then we have to start preparing for the re-review.
     
    Solstice, Kitty, Annie and 27 others like this.
  4. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,779
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    All that’s been indicated in writing from the Cochrane office team is that a project update will be published.

    Call me sceptical :whistle: but I will eat my hat if anything substantial addressing the letter is in it.
    Maybe a timescale.

    In the absence of any substantive response I don’t see the prospect of an update “in the next few weeks” justifies any ME organisation not joining in solidarity with all those pwme who have shared the harm they have experienced.
     
    Solstice, Kitty, Amw66 and 24 others like this.
  5. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

    Messages:
    22,309
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
  6. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,814
    Since 2020 Cochrane have used the prospective of this independent advisory group’s imminent ‘advice’ as a way of avoiding their own failure to address the serious problems with the existing flawed exercise review and the fact that its continued active status within the Cochrane library is an ongoing source of real harm to people with ME/CFS and Long Covid patients meeting the diagnostic criteria for ME/CFS. The IAG is currently there primarily to suggest how a replacement review could be developed. We have no firm assurances that the IAG will provide any ‘advice’ relating to what has gone wrong in Cochrane’s past and current processes or about the official standing of the extant exercise review whilst its replacement is being developed, or even if the IAG do make any recommendations relating to the current review’s status that Cochrane will feel bound to act on that advice.

    It is possible that the IAG will advise the withdrawal of the current review immediately in the next few weeks and that Cochrane will promptly follow through on that, but so far their action over the previous decade suggest Cochrane will prevaricate and use the prospect of the restarted new review process as an excuse to take no action on the existing harmful review until however many years down the line a replacement is completed. Given there are now existential funding threats facing Cochrane, how long could any new review process take or will it even be completed? We face a real possibility, as others have suggested, that the current review will remain published in the Cochrane library and that Cochrane as an active organisation folds, leaving no mechanism for its future withdrawal.

    [corrected typos and deleted some redundant wording]
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2023
    Solstice, Kitty, Amw66 and 15 others like this.
  7. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,626
    Location:
    UK
    Solstice, Kitty, alktipping and 7 others like this.
  8. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

    Messages:
    22,309
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
  9. Ash

    Ash Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,227
    Location:
    UK
    An example of credulity.
    Or ordinary charity model conflict of interest, fearful of participation in public criticism of official bodies. Or a reluctance to publicly align with other advocacy groups in doing so.
     
    Solstice, Kitty, Amw66 and 6 others like this.
  10. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    53,404
    Location:
    UK
    Many thanks to #MEAction Scotland for supporting the letters and petition. This takes us up to 40 international, national and local organisations who have signed in support, listed here.
     
    Solstice, Kitty, Robert 1973 and 20 others like this.
  11. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,220
    Solstice, Kitty, Laurie P and 17 others like this.
  12. Lou B Lou

    Lou B Lou Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    548



    ME charities/orgs/patient groups MUST carry on signing and not stop UNTIL Cochrane have actually *Removed the Review*.

    Our faith in our representational orgs is thin enough as it is. Any patient charity/org that believes Cochrane is going to remove the hugely damaging Review just because Cochrane stated that they will "say something in the next few weeks" is beyond naïve - they have not followed the Cochrane saga that has consumed patient advocates' energy year after year, and are failing the patients they are supposed to represent.

    It's beyond belief that those charities/orgs are letting us down like this.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2023
  13. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    53,404
    Location:
    UK
    That's excellent news, thanks to the Irish ME Assocation and to @Tom Kindlon for helping to publicise the petition.
     
    Solstice, MEMarge, Kitty and 20 others like this.
  14. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,828
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Yes, thanks @Tom Kindlon for your help with this, it's very much appreciated.
     
    Solstice, MEMarge, Kitty and 15 others like this.
  15. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,828
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Here's an update on petition numbers - hopefully that's the start of a bit of a resurgence in signing.
    upload_2023-10-8_17-17-41.png

    And here's the latest petition update:

     
    Solstice, MEMarge, Kitty and 16 others like this.
  16. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    53,404
    Location:
    UK
    We have sent another letter to people at Cochrane, this time addressed to the Chief Executive of Cochrane with copies to relevant people. Posted by the committee on the closed thread, and copied here in case anyone wants to discuss it.

     
    Chezboo, John Mac, MeSci and 30 others like this.
  17. Binkie4

    Binkie4 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,416
    Great questions. I hope that at some point, Cochrane can be persuaded/ compelled to reply to them.
     
    MeSci, Solstice, MEMarge and 16 others like this.
  18. Ash

    Ash Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,227
    Location:
    UK
    This letter is perfect.


    :emoji_fire::emoji_fire::emoji_fire:
     
    MeSci, Solstice, MEMarge and 12 others like this.
  19. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,814
    A great letter, any response to this hopefully will give some insight as to whether we are looking at incompetence or deliberate obfuscation.
     
    MeSci, Lou B Lou, Solstice and 13 others like this.
  20. Arvo

    Arvo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    839
    Indeed. Well done @Trish & co!
     
    MeSci, Lou B Lou, Solstice and 13 others like this.

Share This Page