"Positive Health Statement" - Job Centre Plus

Simbindi said:
I'm still working my way through the DWP ESA/UC assessors manual, but my impression is that the only way for a person with M.E. (with no other health conditions or disabilities) to get into the Support Group of ESA (or the UC equivalent) is if the Health Care Professional (HCP) accepts
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Precisely, I was very lucky that at my ESA assessment last year I had a nurse who immediately told me she knew about M.E. and didn't need to laboriously verify what I had written on my form. She also told me that I should have been granted the home visit I asked for and was refused. This was a very different experience to previous assessments and unfortunately felt like the exception rather than the rule.

ETA: I did get put into the Support group thankfully.
 
Simbindi said:
I think the only chance a PWME would have of the DWP accepting that work (or work related activity) would lead to a 'substantial risk' to their health, would be if they could get their GP or a consultant to make a statement to that effect and submit this with their other medical evidence.
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Well, I put it in my notes on my caree's most recent two ESA applications, and she got Support Group. I suppose it might be debatable whether the two are linked, though.
 
Wits_End said:
Well, I put it in my notes on my caree's most recent two ESA applications, and she got Support Group. I suppose it might be debatable whether the two are linked, though.
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Did you see the actual medical/assessment report that shows how the points were awarded? DId she get put in the Support Group because of limited mobility or because the DM applied the special 'severe risk' exception rule?

Edit: I would still encourage PWME filling out their ESA50/UC50 to state that their health would be put at severe risk if asked to engage in work or work-related activities. My comments are based on what I have read in the DWP assessor's manual, where they 'instruct' HCPs on how to make their decisions in the face to face and how they should write and phrase their comments/recommendations in the computer generated report. There would be a significant difference in the weight a HCP would give to the claimant making this statement and a qualified medical doctor giving their opinion on adverse risks.

I can only make judgments based on 'balance of probablility' - there will always be exceptions, an exceptionally understanding HCP who prehaps has personal knowledge of how severely ME (or CFS) can affect an individual etc.
 
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Simbindi said:
Did you see the actual medical/assessment report that shows how the points were awarded? DId she get put in the Support Group because of limited mobility or because the DM applied the special 'severe risk' exception rule?
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I don't think we saw the report, just got the letter, went "thank goodness" and forgot all about it. Wish I could do the same with the PIP application :(
 
Question just asked in Parliament as a Point of Order about the positive health statement stuff. Deputy Speaker said it wasn't a Point of Order, but encouraged the MP (Marsha de Cordova) to bring it up once the Proroguation of Parliament is over, after The Queen's Speach next Monday (I think).
 
Wits_End said:
I don't think they're comparable, are they? Anyway, the tribunal has asked for the paperwork for her ESA application from the DWP, so presumably they'll be able to compare.
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If it was me, I would want to know how they had assessed me in each ESA statement. I would also want to know the details of what the tribunal was looking at. This is highly relevant to the mobility element of the PIP award.

I was turned down when I applied for DLA (without even seeing a doctor or health professional) because of my ESA medical (this was back in 2010). I didn't have the energy to appeal it. In my ESA report the assessor had said I could mobilise up to 100 metres, although she had only written she had 'seen the claimant walk 11 metres'. But it is up to you how you approach the PIP tribunal.
 
hinterland said:
https://www.theguardian.com/society...w-mood-on-applications?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
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So the advice started within the local NHS 'pain service' and then was taken onboard by the local Job Centre, rather than being a national DWP initiative. This just shows how divorced from reality the NHS is becoming with regards to how severely these medical conditions (depression, chronic pain, ME, MS etc.) affect the sufferer. It also highlights how 'work-focused' (BPS orientated) the UK health services are becoming, instead of being the neutral place where patients go for appropriate medical support, advice and treatment.
 
Simbindi said:
So the advice started within the local NHS 'pain service' and then was taken onboard by the local Job Centre, rather than being a national DWP initiative. This just shows how divorced from reality the NHS is becoming with regards to how severely these medical conditions (depression, chronic pain, ME, MS etc.) affect the sufferer. It also highlights how 'work-focused' (BPS orientated) the UK health services are becoming, instead of being the neutral place where patients go for appropriate medical support, advice and treatment.
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And I think it reflects a strong prejudice that likely exists within Job Centres.
 
Simbindi said:
So the advice started within the local NHS 'pain service' and then was taken onboard by the local Job Centre, rather than being a national DWP initiative. This just shows how divorced from reality the NHS is becoming with regards to how severely these medical conditions (depression, chronic pain, ME, MS etc.) affect the sufferer. It also highlights how 'work-focused' (BPS orientated) the UK health services are becoming, instead of being the neutral place where patients go for appropriate medical support, advice and treatment.
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lower down on the guardian page is another horrendous article stating m e in the Netherlands is to be treated with online therapy what does it take for this bs to stp
 
alktipping said:
lower down on the guardian page is another horrendous article stating m e in the Netherlands is to be treated with online therapy what does it take for this bs to stp
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I think that must be the 'FITNET' trial, discussed on various threads on the forum.

It may be that some of the children who 'recovered' have idiopathic fatigue, certainly not ME or CFS with PEM.
 
Simbindi said:
I think that must be the 'FITNET' trial, discussed on various threads on the forum.

It may be that some of the children who 'recovered' have idiopathic fatigue, certainly not ME or CFS with PEM.
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No long term recovery in FITNET, same as SMC longterm . No doubt, as here, PVFS cohort who recover within 2 years.

My son had PVFS and was floored and missed 18 months school. He did not have PEM. Tired - yes. De conditioned- yes. Excruciating headaches - yes.
PEM - no.
 
Amw66 said:
No long term recovery in FITNET, same as SMC longterm . No doubt, as here, PVFS cohort who recover within 2 years.

My son had PVFS and was floored and missed 18 months school. He did not have PEM. Tired - yes. De conditioned- yes. Excruciating headaches - yes.
PEM - no.
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I had what was probably PVFS after getting glandular fever when I was in lower sixth (age 16-17) back in 1982/3, and this continued for a couple of years wrecking my 'A' level studies, even with an additional year of college. That is why I could tell how different it was after I got the severe upper respiratory infection when my youngest was a baby in 1992. I did manage to struggle on for a few months whilst breast feeding her. I thought I would get better once I stopped this, but the opposite happened and I became bedbound.

My late mother said she felt I was 'never right' after glandular fever, and it was true that I was generally more fatigued then peers, with headaches, swollen glands, regular tonsilitis etc. However, it was nothing like the ME with PEM that started in 1992. That felt like the worst days of the active infection stage of glandular fever, just without the fever (like I was being poisoned and my blood had turned to quick setting concrete). Since then I have never gone more than a couple of days of activity without the PEM making me bedbound for at least a day. I have had months and sometimes years of severe ME, which seems to me feeling in a permanent state of PEM. Recovering from glandular fever was nothing like this.
 
Just when I thought I'd seen the worst the Department of Work and Pensions had to throw at us, they came up with something new. A document has surfaced which gives guidance to those who face disability and illness. The advice includes:

  • "Avoid words that sound worse than they are.
  • You may find it helpful to use official diagnosis terms, e.g. Multiple Sclerosis, PTSD
  • Equally, you may wish to avoid terms such as depression, M.E., or low back pain, etc. and use more general terms such as; low mood or a mental health condition, a fatigue-related condition, an ongoing pain condition, etc…"
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From what I have read, this document was only used in one area and following protests has been withdrawn.
 
Trish said:
From what I have read, this document was only used in one area and following protests has been withdrawn.
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The ideology that lead to it, however, is pretty much in complete control. The document may have been withdrawn but the people who think it's great are still there, believing the same BS and trying to find ways to have the same outcome without being so blatant about it.

We certainly know all about that. No better example than how much more blatantly nonsensical the internal documents on ME within the NHS are. The failure here was letting the quiet part be heard out loud.
 
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