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Preprint: The Rise And Fall Of The Wessely School, 2021, Marks

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic news - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Andy, Jun 10, 2021.

  1. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

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    I agree with you, Peter. I don't think its helpful to personify the muddy thinking and glib ideology that characterises psychological approaches to medical illness. The precursors to this ideology are many, and they are spread wide over both space and time, with some of the original roots going back to Freud. Saying one man is the author of this ideology is like saying that Hitler was responsible for Nazism. That sort of claim entirely misses the real underlying problem.

    Did I just lose the argument by mentioning Nazis?
     
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  2. MSEsperanza

    MSEsperanza Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't think so but to me it still seems an odd analogy, also may be prone to misunderstanding.
     
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  3. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes. (In reply to Woolie) Wessely and Sharpe simply operated in a system in which they had studied and spent their early careers. They became the public face of the movement because they did make all their sources clear. Perhaps being in the middle of it all they were themselves unclear about the influences.

    Would they have been so eager to make use of the Imboden model if they had known that Imboden referred to it as "conversion reaction" - which presumably gives a link to Freud? They suggested Pilowsky as a model but then never again referred to him, although he seems to have been central to the two strands of Illness Behaviour represented by, on the one hand Waddell/Aylward and, on the other ,those who attended the conferences, such as Eisenberg, Kleinman, Mechanic and Cott. But even that strand seems to have early links back to the Maudsley.

    What is surprising is that it is all so difficult to disentangle. I thought it was journalists who did not reveal their sources.
     
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  4. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Agree that making one person the icon of a much more systemic failure is not the way to go.

    Which in no way reduces the culpability of any such person in creating that failure.

    I think 'psychosocial school' or similar is the best all round label. Accurate and neutral. The psychosocial school can hardly object to it, given their central claim is the significance of psychosocial factors in health.
     
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  5. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    But is there a psychosocial school, or are there psychosocial schools?

    The Waddell/Aylward school seems to differ from the Cott school, which seems to be the one with which SW was more closely aligned originally. However the two never seem to acknowledge each others existence, despite both having Pilowsky as a leading character. Waddell seems to be full-blown Pilowsky, adopting his definition and questionnaire In the other school Pilowsky may have been the original organiser, but his views came in for fundamental criticism.

    More research is needed
     
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  6. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    :D
     
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  7. Robert 1973

    Robert 1973 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I agree that it might be wise to use a non-personal term, particularly in the title, without understating the role that any individuals have played.

    BPS activists might object to omitting “bio” from psychosocial, thus presenting them the with opportunity to misrepresent criticism (despite the fact that it is probably a more accurate description of the school of thought without the prefix). I would probably refer to the “biopsychosocial” (BPS) school, although it would be hard to argue that the BPS school has fallen yet.
     
  8. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Below is not the biopsychosocial code of ethics, but rather the British Psychological Society code of ethics.

    Nonetheless, the non-adherence to a code of conduct likely similar to this one, by some BPS investigators, has caused immeasurable harm to millions with ME.



    PSYCHOLOGY TOPICS
    BPS Code of Ethics
    Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on LinkedinShare on GoogleShare by email
    The BPS Code of Ethics is a document produced by the British Psychological Society, which details the general principles that apply to the use of human participants in all research contexts. It focuses on four major principles: respect, competence, responsibility and integrity. (the last 4 words, my bolding)


    https://www.tutor2u.net/psychology/topics/bps-code-of-ethics
     
  9. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thank you very much @DFM for this very in-depth document.

    Along the way, while reading it, I could visualize my experiences with the medical and psych professions as regards ME.

    Thanks again.
     
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  10. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    However, it is my understanding the origins of the BPS Model are ancient, imbedded in human nature.
    Starting in our early origins; eg., the concepts of possession by evil spirits, magic etc.

    The human desires for power, prestige and wealth at any cost, are also ancient.
     
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  11. Samuel

    Samuel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @DFM can't read to nitpick or give substantive criticism for health reasons, but efforts like this are highly appreciated.

    to me a key point is that this historical event constitutes a mass human rights violation, per se.

    works like yours will help document the mass human rights violation for the international human rights community.

    i agree with those who suggest generalizing the name while continuing to name names in the text.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  12. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Which goes back to the 1930s if I recall correctly, though at some point it was called something else, maybe psychobiology? Earlier it had other names. There are so many strands and threads in the origins that even a highly influential person like Wessely is not entirely the source of the problem.

    Early versions of these ideas saw removal of all teeth and colons to cure supposed psychiatric problems, I think pre-1920.. It excused all sorts of excesses. I no longer recall many of the details, I would have to go back and reread stuff. Early to mid last century, going to as late at the 80s in some cases, biopsychosocial explanations were still being used for heart disease and cancer, and not just for adjunctive therapies. A few years back I was reading an account by a modern psychiatrist who claimed that yes, MS was physical, but it was also psychological/psychiatric. This style of thinking, the entire framework, is pernicious.

    To me the core problem is a deeply entrenched issue with in-/adequate scientific methodology, in which unsubstantiated hypotheses can be made to look promising. This is reinforced by rhetoric and eminence to pursuade, in political style, rather than data and good experimental design with adequate analysis. Psychiatry without science isn't even a social science, as many in the social sciences are well aware of biases and at least try to account for them.
     
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  13. Lidia Thompson

    Lidia Thompson Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hi Andy.
    I can't seem to find a link to this anywhere. Not one that works anyhow.
    Any ideas? Has it been removed?

    If someone can send me a link, that would be great. Ta.
     
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  14. Lidia Thompson

    Lidia Thompson Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've managed to download it now. Sorry to have bothered you!
     
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  15. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    fallacious causal assumptions

    Not just that, they have made it clear over the years that they are very reluctant to identify and test their assumptions, causal or otherwise.
     
  16. Maat

    Maat Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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