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Protocol: Persistent physical symptoms reduction intervention: a system change and evaluation (PRINCE), 2015 onwards, Chalder, Moss-Morris, et al

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Sly Saint, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,582
    Location:
    UK
    (Not sure exactly what these are, but results are due I think?)

    PRINCE Primary: Integrated GP Care for Persistent Physical Symptoms - a Feasibility & Cluster Randomised Controlled Trial (PRINCE Primary)

    Sponsor:
    King's College London
    Collaborator:
    South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust
    Information provided by (Responsible Party):
    King's College London
    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02444520

    The PRINCE Secondary Study: Persistent Physical Symptoms Reduction Intervention: a System Change and Evaluation in Secondary Care




    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02426788


    (see also page 20 of this document:
    https://kcl-mrcdtp.com/wp-content/u...2-Project-Catalogue-201718-Updated-June18.pdf
    17.2 Understanding transtherapeutic mechanisms in cognitive behavioral interventions for patients with Persistent Physical Symptoms

     
  2. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    12,419
    Location:
    Canada
    Has there ever been a solution more desperately in search of a problem? I guess they kind of solved that problem by just inventing a fictional representation of the problem but still it's pathological at this point.

    CBT will make your car go faster.

    CBT will make the sun shine brighter.

    CBT will dissolve calcium deposits in your drain.

    Ironically this is the biggest tell of all about snake oil: claiming that it basically works for everything. Nothing does. It's not a thing.
     
  3. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    52,217
    Location:
    UK
    CBT trains you to fill in questionnaires differently.
     
    Arnie Pye, Liessa, rainy and 38 others like this.
  4. shak8

    shak8 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,218
    Location:
    California
    CBT= Could Be Tripe

    Do y'all have other meanings for this meaningless acronym?
     
  5. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    12,419
    Location:
    Canada
    That's the most depressing thing of all. "Fatigue was reduced". No, no it wasn't, you can't know or verify that. This whole body of research literally makes a point of pretending to help people whose health problems (I'm sorry... health "complaints") cannot be tested for. It shouldn't even be allowed to make definitive statements like this, especially when the premise is "these people can't actually be sick since we can't test for it". Nevermind that it's a secondary symptom and that the participants may or may not have ME...

    Then again, the whole premise of PACE is that our judgment is flawed yet it relies on our judgment as evidence that it worked, the very same judgment that has been opinionated to be flawed, something which can't be tested for either. We can't test (yet) this particular diagnosis so clearly they have this other diagnosis which is impossible to test for either but just trust us over this will ya, and don't listen to the people doing this "biomedical research" thing, they're clearly biased with their machines and numbers and whatnot.

    Catch-22 disease, I tell ya.
     
  6. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    692
    CBT = Cannot Be True
     
  7. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    13,444
    Location:
    London, UK
    As I indicated in a previous universe the original meaning was:

    Cardigan Bleu Thérapeutique
     
  8. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    13,444
    Location:
    London, UK
    As we have been told on another thread these 40% of cases do not actually have a medical condition. They need to play chess. Psychotherapists are much too expensive these days.
     
  9. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    13,255
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    Complete Bloody Tripe - maybe
     
  10. wdb

    wdb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    UK
    CBT would without any doubt do all of those things provided all measurements were made by questionnaire.
     
  11. ladycatlover

    ladycatlover Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Liverpool, UK
    I got badly confused by this as I thought PPS was Post Polio Syndrome. How dare these psychos take over (by using the PPS label) a very debilitating late illness following Polio in early life. :mad:
     
    Arnie Pye, Liessa, Sarah94 and 12 others like this.
  12. Andy

    Andy Committee Member

    Messages:
    21,911
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Can't Believe (it's a) Therapy?
    Creepy Brain Therapy?
    Complete Bullshit Triumphs?
     
  13. Willow

    Willow Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    CBT = Can't Be Trusted
     
    Sarah94, Webdog, dangermouse and 12 others like this.
  14. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,248
    Location:
    Stanford, CA
    Complete bullsh!t thinking?
     
  15. Willow

    Willow Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    Midwest, USA
    CBT= Chalder's Beliefs Techniques
     
  16. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    8,385
    The clear presumption is that core mechanisms are psychological. So no risk of any bias creeping in there then :rolleyes:.
     
  17. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    10,496
    Location:
    Germany
    Unfortunately I'm proof of this. I have been playing online chess obsessively since last April (as a way to pass the time and keep my spirits up since all my other hobbies have had to be cancelled). In that time my health has improved. So I obviously didn't have a medical condition and chess has done the trick. I still can't shovel snow, but let's not complicate things.
     
  18. Sarah

    Sarah Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,494
    Sounds like a chess infection.. Common rookie error to overlook.
     
    Liessa, JellyBabyKid, Webdog and 20 others like this.
  19. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

    Messages:
    10,496
    Location:
    Germany
    Well I must admit, knights can be a little hoarse.
     
    Liessa, Hutan, Sarah94 and 22 others like this.
  20. Simbindi

    Simbindi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,746
    Location:
    Somerset, England
    In the words of Matt Hancock: Secretary of State for Health and Social Care Matt Hancock said: “Personalised care is the future and there’s growing evidence that supporting people to access community services and activities, such as chess clubs or dance classes, has the power to improve people’s health and wellbeing. For the first time ever, millions of people across the country will soon be able to access care that is truly tailored to their individual needs."

    Link at: https://www.england.nhs.uk/2019/01/army-of-workers-to-support-family-doctors/

    Summary Plain English version available at: https://www.networks.nhs.uk/editors-blog/in-the-consulting-room-social-prescribing
     

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