Reel on Cathy Stannard about long term pain on radio 4

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32K views · 489 reactions | Why do two people with the exact same injury feel completely different levels of pain? “Short-term pain is an incident along a pathway where there’s been a tendency towards having pain...” Dr Cathy Stannard joins @doc

Why do two people with the exact same injury feel completely different levels of pain? “Short-term pain is an incident along a pathway where there’s been a tendency towards having pain...” Dr...

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With chris and xand van tulekin so has a lot of traffic

Interesting going thru the comments there were a few names some here might be familiar with too.

Apparently also on ‘what’s up doc?’ On bbc sounds


I think Cathy Stannard was in charge of pushing this stuff thru the nhs at least at one point.

Why do so many just decided to believe that pain in others must be caused by ‘trauma having changed’ them just by virtue of mis-thinking ‘your leg should have stopped hurting by now’ normally without checking a thing on that side is what always intrigues me. They must be open to wanting to. Which also intrigues me because they can also see it’s basically just blocking healthcare to a group already hurt and probably more likely to be genuinely ill than those who are more privileged that’s being sold based on a thin fairy tale that’s most unpleasant in what it’s suggesting about people. Talk about weaponising fake mental health accusations..

The straight face of it all I just find fascinating when you think of the impact of it being that potentially those who already had the most misfortune early on then get selected to not have real health concerns taken seriously but belittle as part of a ‘damaged person’ (I hate that phrase and find it revolting but I’ve see. People saying it with a straight face and that tells me everything about them that they say it thinking they are acceptable) hypothesis that anything they suffer is now to do with ‘how they process their trauma’ - talk about victimising those who should be more supported under the guise of pretend it’s help etc and scarily I’m not even sure those who invent and push it are aware what they are actually doing /self-aware that they’ve actually evidenced nothing , the truism of the bigotry seems so real to them I guess.

So scary to watch how these ‘isms’ take over people thinking they are being ‘cutting edge’ and it’s reality only they see etc without them being aware it’s neither science nor truth/reality nor helpful and the opposite of kind etc

 

[Chandelier]

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Everything that happens in our life, particularly in our early years, determine our experience of long-term pain.

So it is no longer to do with an observably injured body part.

It is actually how your brain processes lots and lots of information.

And what it spews out is an experience of pain.

Could you give specific examples of an early life experience that might play into someone's experience of pain and how might that interact with a physical injury or a cause of secondary pain?

The most important example is early life trauma.

We know that about 84 85% of people with chronic pain have had at least one adverse childhood experience, that there's actually a biological substrate to that.

So we know that trauma vastly changes your stress response, your neurochemistry, it can change the way that nerves wire into your spinal cord and demonstrate

lots and lots of change in relation to childhood trauma that would give rise to an experience of pain.

Now, you.

About what would happen then if you had an incidental sort of pain.

And I think a more useful concept than thinking about a short-term pain that becomes a long-term pain is that short-term pain is an incident along a pathway where there's been a tendency towards having pain as an experience.

And that maybe accelerates that pathway or exacerbates that pathway because the injury is coming into a nervous system which is primed to have long-term pain.

 

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So much ‘theirising’ and scrabbling round to make it sound justified by just speaking assertively and as if it comes from a place of good intentions that aren’t callously indifferent and biased by wanting it to be true because of conflicts of interest.

I’ve never seen any raw primary research this ideology ever stemmed from ? Just appeared in the assumptions of certain types of people who get into certain industries/jobs? When they are so short on referencing or methods in these things it’s hard to tell?

 

[Hoopoe]

I believe the causation mentioned here may be the reverse of what happens in reality.

I suspect in reality the experience of chronic pain triggers a shift into a specific mental state with a protective function. This involves heightened sensitivity and perception of potentially dangerous situations. In this state, negative events from the past are perceived as much more negative than they would be perceived in a normal state. By increasing our sensitivity to pain and suffering, we become much more motivated to avoid any potential sources of pain and suffering. The function is protective.

I believe this because I suffered from acquired neuropathic pain, and was able to observe its effect on myself. It is very clear that the current experience of pain greatly influences how things are perceived. Common sense tells me this isn't an accident but by design.

 

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I believe the causation mentioned here may be the reverse of what happens in reality.

I suspect in reality the experience of chronic pain triggers a shift into a specific mental state with a protective function. This involves heightened sensitivity and perception of potentially dangerous situations. In this state, negative events from the past are perceived as much more negative than they would be perceived in a normal state. By increasing our sensitivity to pain and suffering, we become much more motivated to avoid any potential sources of pain and suffering. The function is protective.

I believe this because I suffered from acquired neuropathic pain, and was able to observe its effect on myself. It is very clear that the current experience of pain greatly influences how things are perceived. Common sense tells me this isn't an accident but by design.

Indeed - even where that is happening (I caveat as I think it’s also possible to have chronic pain and not have any of this or it not change perception but if it does indeed they’ve reversed causation here) the pain isn’t caused or perpetuated by it - the poor person just had two crap things so deserve understanding that it’s bad fortune and probably practically affects one opportunities too vs if you had a dream background with lots of support so over averages could have meant more hard work and rubbish living situations wearing your body for a job that’s less pleasant working conditions than the next person who didn’t.

The idea someone is assuming someone sleeping on an old cheap mattress with the springs gone and doing manual work and long walks carrying shopping when they eg tore their x muscle recovered less well in general because their childhood caused ‘trauma’ to the extent they block access to what could help and pragmatic care is just heartbreaking bigotry veiled in weaponised mental health terms excluding those who’ve been through the toughest time from getting the right care for either (one has to give informed consent if they wanted to seek support if they did have trauma but this is skirting that by telling lies that their chronic pain will only be treated by dragging that up)

If you think about it just liked you have to be careful with ptsd and mindfulness as it can be harmful the idea of chucking someone who might have been through some seriously bad abuse into ‘therapy by physio’ who isn’t an expert in psych or counselling or licensed to be safe nevermind an expert in abuse or it might be an accident or it’s from war they have which needs specialists who know how to be safe with those, at the very point they are even more vulnerable if this is the case that they’d feel even worse about if should they think on it due to being in pain - well it is so irresponsible.

And to do so by trickery when it won’t help the injury but someone has been forced into it because they won’t get their pain treated by other forms other people could access ‘cos they don’t have trauma’ it’s pure discrimination and stinks of bigotry that sadly a lot have where they think instead of them having to be a citizen and considerate of those less privileged and lucky than them who had bad things happen they can twist it as ‘something the other person has to sort out’ whether they have any issue or not as an excuse to exclude them like some dirty washing whilst pretending they are being beneficent.