The Bigger Picture

That statement is messed up and very revealing. What kind of shady snake oil salesman thinks like that?

I'm pissed that absolutely nothing is made of the fact that White and Chalder registered a company with the express purpose of a business promoting and selling the BPS model that operated during the time of the PACE trial.

The selective filtering of facts is astounding.

 

If back pain is psychosomatic, how do people always know exactly where the discs are that degenerate? Why do they always say the pain is in the place where the discs are dodgy?

 

Where is this documented? I had not heard of that.

 

https://companycheck.co.uk/company/04364122/ONE-HEALTH/companies-house-data

 

Nature of business (SIC)

86900 Other human health activities - To carry on business associated with the establishment and promotion of a system of healthcare based on a biopyschological model, being a model that incorporates thoughts, feelings and behaviour wit psysiological approach to health and illness. Limited by guarantee. Total incoming resources.

Registered in January 2002. Dissolved in 2010.

Other names are not familiar but Chalder and White are both directors.

I have downloaded the incorporation papers. Not sure if it's OK to publish so here's a screenshot of the main articles:

 

So the PACE authors had another competing interest?

 

Dr. Brian Marien, Founder and Director of Positive Group, specialists in evidence- based programmes to improve psychological wellbeing and build resilience enabling individuals and teams to fulfill their potential, discusses burnout and the need to embrace and manage stress.

According to Stanford psychologist Kelly McGonigal, stress can make us stronger, smarter and happier – if we learn how to open our minds to it: important advice when teacher burnout in the UK is approaching an all-time high.

 

In true biopsychosocial fasion, they would probably argue that what makes the difference between painful and not painful is the negative thoughts and symptom focusing. They would cite research showing that on imaging, even people without complaints have degenerated discs. They would maybe even be able to produce a clinical trial that shows a symptom reduction after the right kind of CBT.

 

Info and context on "One Health" can be found in this article, including The Discussions, p 11 - 16

http://www.margaretwilliams.me/2016/proof-positive-revisited.pdf

The Discussions

In the context of the PACE trial and the recently-released data, of particular importance and relevance is the discussion section following the presentations at the One Health conference (chapter 12: “What are the barriers to healthcare systems using a biopsychosocial approach and how might they be overcome?”). "
Here is the link to the chapter mentioned here, but it's behind a paywall:

http://www.oxfordclinicalpsych.com/...8530343.001.0001/med-9780198530343-chapter-12

 

I have pointed that out in response to the recent ethical review. Maybe they don't check those but anyway this is the kind of thing that needs to be told upfront or it would cause more significant problems so I guess we're just seeing the formula at play: yes, there were conflicts of interest but they were declared so it's all good.

 

Uhhh... that's bad. That's very bad.

If true...

 

Just need to verify when it was dissolved, this website says 15 Jun 2010.

https://www.companieslondon.com/uk/04364122/one-health

 

I do appreciate that, but it had been steadily getting worse for months (I invariably put off going to the doctors' as long as I can!), so it very much seemed the trend was going to keep getting worse, and the x-ray and specialist advice strongly indicated it was going to continue getting worse without doing something. And then that trend started reversing soon after starting the physio, and continued to reverse. In fact there was once the improvement faltered, and we realised I'd been getting a bit lazy about persevering with the exercises. If core muscles help to keep the spine well-aligned and supported, and if you have a problem exacerbated by such muscles being in poor condition, does it not make sense that getting them back into a bit better shape will help alleviate such problems?

I do very much appreciate and endorse what you and many others say here, most of the time, but I also find a blanket approach to denigrating such treatments a bit frustrating, when it seems the evidence may not be there simply because people may not have gone looking for it, or have looked in the wrong places. Heaven knows we've seen enough of that.

 

*Inserts psychobabble*

Dear Jonathan. It does not matter if they get it right, that is not an argument against a psychosomatic origin - because the body/mind is an interchanging entity! What came first? The excruciating pain, or the thought of it, that ultimately very well might have manifested such illness behavior? Don`t listen to the "back-pain"-activists when they angrily demands pain medication just because it hurts, I`m not sure you are aware but me and my colleagues did research on this and found that these "back-pain"-activists were as healthy as sick 80 year olds when they just got a little chat with us! Some "back-pain"-troll tried to convince me on Twitter that that`s not absolutely magnificent, haha! Can u imagine. That comment did make me very upset and scared though, so iv`e been forced to change my name and hire bodyguards when in public in case I get assassinated.

 

Not really, I suspect. The inhibitory effect of pain on muscle action is pretty involuntary. With lumbar disc problems there is typically involuntary spasms in some groups and laxity in others. You cannot override that. Moreover, the exercises people are given do not discriminate between the two.

I am sorry to be such a killjoy but I cannot overemphasise how much we are all influenced by our expectation biases. A lot of the time that may do no great harm but sometimes it may do a lot of harm.

 

One Health contact, 100 Fetters Lane:
https://companycheck.co.uk/company/04364122/ONE-HEALTH/contact


Messr Beachcroft, 100 Fetters Lane:
https://www.dacbeachcroft.com/en/gb/locations/london-fetter-lane/

 

I cannot agree with this in my case, but I'll drop it there.

 

So the company was founded in 2002 and dissolved in 2010, with PW and TC amongst the founders. Cannot tell when they resigned though, but if their directorships overlapped PACE then surely would have been a COI? I don't see this company listed in the 2011 COI statement:

 

Might the company have been set up in order to potentially market the manuals?

 

maxwhd was onto this in 2014

---------------------------------------


maxwhd · @maxwhd
5th Apr 2014 from TwitLonger

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s19b2i


Biopsychosocial Medicine

An integrated approach to understanding illness

Edited by Peter White

http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780198530343.do

Biopsychosocial Medicine: An Integrated Approach to Understanding ...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...i=1EU_U4CSD8mp7Qa26YHwCA&ved=0CJIBEOgBMAw

This book attempts to answer these questions.

It arose out of a two day conference held at the Novartis Foundation, in London, on the last day of October and the first day in November 2002.

Because the biopsychosocial approach is better established in psychiatry and healthcare for medically unexplained symptoms, we concentrated on examining the relevance of the biopsychosocial approach to chronic medical diseases.

The conference was a joint venture between the Novartis Foundation and One Health.

One Health is a not-for-profit company that was established in order to promote a system of healthcare based on the biopsychosocial model of ill-health.

The conference was co-organized by Dr. Greg Bock, Deputy Director of the Novartis Foundation, and myself, ably assisted by staff at Novartis.

Twenty eight international experts in the field were invited (see the list of contributors).

Twelve talks were given followed by an equal time spent in discussion.

This book includes those talks, edited and updated since the conference in order to incorporate the latest relevant research findings in the field.

The discussions and some of the presentations were audiotaped and transcribed by Jamie Cooke.

The discussions have only been edited for the sake of clarity, since I wanted to keep them as close as possible to the original discussions, in order to keep them as spontaneous as they were on the day.

Professor Peter White, Chairman of One Health December 2004


https://www.duedil.com/director/906430392/peter-denton-white


Dr Peter Denton White is British and was born in 1952. The first directorship we have on file for them was in 1999 at Added Value Advisory Services Limited. Their newest directorship was with One Health where they held the position of "Medical practitioner". The company was established 31 Jan 2002 . Peter has held 2 directorships, 1 of which are currently active, and 1 are previous.

Related Directors

Officer with / at

Professor Trudie Chalder One Health
Dr Brian James Marien One Health
Professor Christopher John Main One Health
Prof Robert John Preston Lewin One Health
Ms Caroline White Added Value Advisory Services Limited

http://positivegroup.org/who-we-are/

Advisory Board

Our multidisciplinary Advisory Team provides the latest expert knowledge and scientific advances from relevant disciplines including: cognitive and behavioural psychology, neuroscience, clinical and health psychology, fitness and exercise, nutritional medicine, executive coaching, leadership and change management.

Dr Brian Marien
MB BS DCH DRCOG MSc (Psychol) MRCGP

Professor Trudie Chalder
PhD MSc SRN RMN Cert in Beh Psychotherapy

Professor Tom Sensky
BSc PhD MB BS FRCPsych

Professor Paul Brown

continues