The ELAROS NHS digital system for patient/clinician digital sharing questionnaire data, includes Yorkshire Rehab. Scale and Open-OH app

I hope someone can publicly ask an MEA representative why they are assisting a 'solution' for ME/CFS and Long Covid that categorises these conditions alongside 'Mental Health'* requiring a 'therapy-led'** approach.

* as described by the app developers
** according to the MEA's Facebook post about the app.

Of course we can speculate about why, but it would be interesting for them to have to come out and publicly say it.
 
I wonder what it costs?
And how the cost compares to Visible*

*I know not everyone is a fan of Visible but at least it’s based on some science and uses FUNCAP. It’s not likely to cause damage, or harm. If the NHS said they were offering one or the other, and neither isn’t an option, Visible is better than Elaros or Nothing. They sell visible about £60 for a heart rate band and £15 per month, so £240 fora year, retail.
Based on serverely affected Service Users request and personal experiences a limited number of licences was costed, allowance made and Visible incorporated into our service model.
 
I'm attempting to explore the app in more detail and will make some notes here. Since the app is on my phone and I'm typing this on my laptop I can't copy slabs of text, so this will be sketchy. Wish me luck. I hate feeling I have to do this, but someone's got to tell them about the problems with it.

The home page has a series of sections to select:

My tasks, add task.

Help at Work

Symptom specific resources

Financial resources

Advice for managers or employers

Videos

Advice for friends, family or carers

Condition overview

Provide your feedback

Day streak

Feedback form

Youir trends

Community
____________________

Taking these one by one:

My tasks: I tried adding steps and resting heart rate as tasks and selected daily. This created 2 more items to the list on the home page, but when I tapped on them nothing happened.
____________

Help at work:
Has a series of articles copied from or provided by other sources. Apart from one provided by an FM association, they seem to be all generic guides for anyone needing workplace adjustments, home working, short and long term absences, redundancy rights.
And there's one called IGLOo guide for employees which is specifically for people returning to work after a period of absence with a mental ill health, with lots about depression, anxiety, stress. And a list of further resources on mental health and work. So totally inappropriate for an LC, FM and ME/CFS guide.
___________________

Financial Resources
Financial wellbeing advice is focused on a link between financial difficulty and mental ill health. And stuff about stigma and the need to get financial advice. Nothing conditions specific in that section.
Lots of stuff copied from other bodies about sickness pay, redundancies etc not condition specific. Includes the access to work scheme, PIP and other benefits.
An MEA booklet on their disablity rating scale and the suggestion it can be used to inform medical and benefit discussions and to monitor progress.
An MEA guide to PIP and ESA and UC applications.
_____________________

Advice for Managers or employers
Igloo guide for line managers or employers and Occupational health at work don't see to have any resources yet

Employers guide - Working with fibromyalgia is provided by the FM association. I haven't read it.

Disablity discriminatlon in the workplace: Generic documents about employers' obligations, and about direct and indirect discrimination, harassment etc.

Healthy home working, an overview for managers:
about the health and safety act, and about the challenges for managers of people working from home. Things to consider includes stuff about ergonomics of home office and advice for the person working from home to take 5 to 10 minute breaks every hour and 'mobilise about the home' Section on resilience includes encourage employees to keep to a schedule and more frequent contact with them. So while there is mention of reasonable adjustments and OH referral, the focus is on keeping them working efficiently and resiliently. Some links given to various sources including one called Cordell health that focuses on getting disabled people able to continue working.
_____________________

Continued in a new post a couple of posts on from this one...
 
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Thanks Trish.
I’ve looked at IGLOO and it’s just an initiative about return to work, what the Individual, their colleagues Group, their manager Leader and the Organisation should all be doing.

Like many of these, good luck to any Individual assuming their G, L and O will be at all interested in helping.

So far the app sounds full of absolute generic rubbish which exists mid way through a Google search. Who needs to be reading about indirect discrimination unless you think you’re being discriminated against.
We can all find ACAS, we don’t need to gen up on the law and stride back to the office thrusting it triumphantly under everyone’s nose. Financial advice? Start saving, there’s very little assistance.

Looking forward to when you find the part on pacing….not.
 
Last edited:
Continuing my notes on the app:

The home page has a series of sections to select, I've crossed out the ones convered in my previous post:

My tasks, add task.

Help at Work


Symptom specific resources

Financial resources

Advice for managers or employers


Videos

Advice for friends, family or carers

Condition overview

Provide your feedback

Day streak

Feedback form

Youir trends

Community
__________________

Symptom specific resources

Topics covered:

Anxiety
Breathlessness and cough
Cognition
Communication
Emotional impact of Long Covid
Fatigue
Nutrition and hydration
Pain management
Physical activity and exercise
Sleep
Mindfulness
Stress
Social life and hobbies
Voice advice
Information for people affected by Fibromyalgia
Dysautonomia - A Guided for ME/CFS
Post-exertoinal Malaise
Post-Viral Fatigue - A Guide to Management
Cold hands and feet
Headaches and migraines
Orthostatic intolerance
POTS
Sensitivities, intolerances and hypersensitivities
Stomach and IBS
ME/CFS - A Guide to Symptom Management
_________________

I'll just look at a few of the above:

Anxiety - quite a lot about what it is and why pwLC may experience it, and details of aspects like cognitive distortions and a guide to techniques for treating it including CBT. counselling, grounding techniques, and what they are. Plus links to apps, more info and support groups.

Cognition Describes brain fog, lists some problems people with LC have and impact on life, relatonships and work. Says there's no evidence it's permanent.
Says best for management and rehab to start early:
"Post-Covid related brain fog symptoms should improve with:
Time
Rehabilitation
Management advice and strategies
Adoption of healthy lifestyle habits
Return to normal lifestyle and routine."

List of cognitive processes that can be affected by brain fog including attention, memory, perception, insight, orientation, language, processing speed, reasoning, executive function and metacognition, with brief explanation of each. Says a problem with one or more can cause difficulty.

List of possible causes of brain fog says not established but could include PVFS, lingering virus, encephalitis, hypoxia microvascular damage, breathing and heart probs, MCAS... Tnen details each of these and other possible causes that may need medical investigation. Secondary contributors listed including fatigue, poor diet, meds, sleep issues, pain, stress, anxiety, low mood, social isolation, mental over exertion, physical underexertion.

A bit about possible investigations of brain fog.
Treatment:
fatigue management, cognitive rehab, use of compensatory aids or strategies, adopting healthy lifestyle habits of body and mind.

Lots of advice about pacing, going slowly, lifestyle, reduce sensory stimuli, maintain social contact,
Description of cog, rehab - focus on training to negotiate daily life.
Exercising the brain, remedial strategies, include adding variety, mentally stimulating games etc Recommends a list of brain training apps,
Sleep hygiene,
physical exercise - recommends aiming for up to 30 minutes mild to moderate exercise a day, says more might cause PEM.
Lots more on techniques for aiding aspects of cognitive activity.

Lists and links sources - WHO, booklets by 3 NHS LC clinics.
________-

Communication
Very short, plus a reference

Emotional impact of LC
What you might experience, and what can help - relaxation, grounding technique, list of other useful techniques including meditation, yoga, mindfulness, music.
Thinking patterns and symptoms - a section about worry about and paying attention to symptoms can make them worse/
"For example if you focus on headaches, you will likely get more headaches, ... poor sleep, ...concentration... " Cycle of worry and symptoms affecting each other, ... be kind to yourself...
Source Leeds NHS LC rehab booklet.

More to come
 
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How did they arrive at this magic figure? If I attempted to do 30 mins exercise it would probably finish me off!

Does this happen with everything medical now; seems harmless <<shrug>> Best guess is not evidence

I thought the general exercise advice was 30 mins 5 times a week. Not every day.

It feels to me like what has happened with newspapers.

There’s very little investigative journalism in them, and people assume that if something is in a newspaper there has been some journalistic rigour, and that there are some laws and rules about being factually correct.

In fact, a large amount of coverage in a paper is “op/ed” or columnist, literally the “opinion” of the writer, which allows them to be correct as it’s an opinion, it doesn’t require checking for facts.
And printed facts can frequently be wrong, at best you might get a later correction if it’s raised and deemed to be necessary but often they just are left.

This approach of constantly tweaking and recycling lame advice on well-being feels similar.
It’s like “drink 8 glasses of water per day”
Why 8?
What size are the glasses? Pints? tumblers?
What size am I? 50kg? 200kg?
 
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How did they arrive at this magic figure? If I attempted to do 30 mins exercise it would probably finish me off!

Does this happen with everything medical now; seems harmless <<shrug>> Best guess is not evidence
Sounds like what they recommend to healthy people , 30mins a day, with a pretty half hearted caveat as if it covers their wilful ignorance legally should harm result from their recommendation
 
I thought the general exercise advice was 30 mins 5 times a week. Not every day.
Judging from the many, many (way too many) headlines and studies I have seen in recent years, most general advice is entirely speculative opinion.

I've seen it all: a little bit every day, intense once a week, or maybe on the week-end, lift weights, no, cardio, no, fun things, wait, actually mix things, no, you must be disciplined and find the one thing you can endure, or, maybe as little as 15 minutes, actually, just a moderate walk is fine, wait, actually make that walk a little faster and you'll get all the benefits of... whatever.

Some recent meta analyses of systematic reviews I have seen mostly amount to basically no good advice for this beyond: move, a little, a little more is probably good, more than that probably doesn't matter much unless you have a specific fitness goal, enjoy it, don't sit too long at once. The rest is just fake optimization, cooked up by people wanting to sell things, or hoping that their special little advice may get its 15 minutes of shame.

There really doesn't seem to be any actual reliable advice on this. All the previous such advices were pulled straight out someone's ass for the most part, based on their personal biases, agendas and/or bank accounts.
 
Judging from the many, many (way too many) headlines and studies I have seen in recent years, most general advice is entirely speculative opinion.

I've seen it all: a little bit every day, intense once a week, or maybe on the week-end, lift weights, no, cardio, no, fun things, wait, actually mix things, no, you must be disciplined and find the one thing you can endure, or, maybe as little as 15 minutes, actually, just a moderate walk is fine, wait, actually make that walk a little faster and you'll get all the benefits of... whatever.

Some recent meta analyses of systematic reviews I have seen mostly amount to basically no good advice for this beyond: move, a little, a little more is probably good, more than that probably doesn't matter much unless you have a specific fitness goal, enjoy it, don't sit too long at once. The rest is just fake optimization, cooked up by people wanting to sell things, or hoping that their special little advice may get its 15 minutes of shame.

There really doesn't seem to be any actual reliable advice on this. All the previous such advices were pulled straight out someone's ass for the most part, based on their personal biases, agendas and/or bank accounts.
There isn’t, but the standard NHS advice is 5 x 30, which is why it seems additionally unfair to tell pwME via a dumb app to exercise for 30 mins per day- more than they usually advise people who don’t have ME.
 
Continuing my notes on the app:

The home page has a series of sections to select, I've crossed out the ones convered in my previous post:

My tasks, add task.

Help at Work


Symptom specific resources

Financial resources

Advice for managers or employers


Videos

Advice for friends, family or carers

Condition overview

Provide your feedback

Day streak

Feedback form

Youir trends

Community
__________________

Symptom specific resources

Topics covered:

Anxiety
Breathlessness and cough
Cognition
Communication
Emotional impact of Long Covid
Fatigue
Nutrition and hydration
Pain management
Physical activity and exercise
Sleep
Mindfulness
Stress
Social life and hobbies
Voice advice
Information for people affected by Fibromyalgia
Dysautonomia - A Guided for ME/CFS
Post-exertoinal Malaise
Post-Viral Fatigue - A Guide to Management
Cold hands and feet
Headaches and migraines
Orthostatic intolerance
POTS
Sensitivities, intolerances and hypersensitivities
Stomach and IBS
ME/CFS - A Guide to Symptom Management
_________________

I'll just look at a few of the above:

Anxiety - quite a lot about what it is and why pwLC may experience it, and details of aspects like cognitive distortions and a guide to techniques for treating it including CBT. counselling, grounding techniques, and what they are. Plus links to apps, more info and support groups.

Cognition Describes brain fog, lists some problems people with LC have and impact on life, relatonships and work. Says there's no evidence it's permanent.
Says best for management and rehab to start early:
"Post-Covid related brain fog symptoms should improve with:
Time
Rehabilitation
Management advice and strategies
Adoption of healthy lifestyle habits
Return to normal lifestyle and routine."

List of cognitive processes that can be affected by brain fog including attention, memory, perception, insight, orientation, language, processing speed, reasoning, executive function and metacognition, with brief explanation of each. Says a problem with one or more can cause difficulty.

List of possible causes of brain fog says not established but could include PVFS, lingering virus, encephalitis, hypoxia microvascular damage, breathing and heart probs, MCAS... Tnen details each of these and other possible causes that may need medical investigation. Secondary contributors listed including fatigue, poor diet, meds, sleep issues, pain, stress, anxiety, low mood, social isolation, mental over exertion, physical underexertion.

A bit about possible investigations of brain fog.
Treatment:
fatigue management, cognitive rehab, use of compensatory aids or strategies, adopting healthy lifestyle habits of body and mind.

Lots of advice about pacing, going slowly, lifestyle, reduce sensory stimuli, maintain social contact,
Description of cog, rehab - focus on training to negotiate daily life.
Exercising the brain, remedial strategies, include adding variety, mentally stimulating games etc Recommends a list of brain training apps,
Sleep hygiene,
physical exercise - recommends aiming for up to 30 minutes mild to moderate exercise a day, says more might cause PEM.
Lots more on techniques for aiding aspects of cognitive activity.

Lists and links sources - WHO, booklets by 3 NHS LC clinics.
________-

Communication
Very short, plus a reference

Emotional impact of LC
What you might experience, and what can help - relaxation, grounding technique, list of other useful techniques including meditation, yoga, mindfulness, music.
Thinking patterns and symptoms - a section about worry about and paying attention to symptoms can make them worse/
"For example if you focus on headaches, you will likely get more headaches, ... poor sleep, ...concentration... " Cycle of worry and symptoms affecting each other, ... be kind to yourself...
Source Leeds NHS LC rehab booklet.

More to come

It’s geared to long covid then? Are those topics copied of MEA sheets of their own material?. Cognitive dysfunction in m.e cannot be rehabilitated in the usual sense. It either gets worse by itself or improves by itself as you generally improve. You are not bringing about ability to read more by reading more each day for example Afaics
 
Continuing this section. I'm not attempting to make notes on all of it. Sections covered on a previous post are crossed through. I have bolded the sections I aim to cover today:

Symptom specific resources

Topics covered:

Anxiety
Breathlessness and cough
Cognition
Communication
Emotional impact of Long Covid

Fatigue
Nutrition and hydration
Pain management
Physical activity and exercise
Sleep
Mindfulness
Stress
Social life and hobbies
Voice advice
Information for people affected by Fibromyalgia
Dysautonomia - A Guided for ME/CFS
Post-exertional Malaise
Post-Viral Fatigue - A Guide to Management

Cold hands and feet
Headaches and migraines
Orthostatic intolerance
POTS
Sensitivities, intolerances and hypersensitivities
Stomach and IBS
ME/CFS - A Guide to Symptom Management
_______________________
Fatigue -
specifically about PVF following Covid
Several sources listed:
Leeds Trust - Long Covid Rehabilitation booklet - A guide for patients

Northern Care Alliance - Managing Post-Viral Fatigue after Covid-19

Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Activity diary booklet, and post covid service video on managing fatigue I didn't find these.

Background information - what is fatigue, who gets post viral fatigue,
How to manage fatigue - during the infection - rest, keep activity level low, nourish, move about if possible, allow time, have fun, stop studies/work unless you feel full well.
Next steps - try activity, slowly increase activity, short rests, keep to a daily routine, don't rush, exercise carefully and resume slowly, work/study - ask for adaptations if needed. have fun.
Recognising it is difficult - expectations, acceptance, support, school, work, responsibilities - OH assessment etc.
Further info: rest, pacing, morning and evening light, naps, food
Moving forward - pvfs may take months, rest, routine and fun.
How do I know if I have ME/CFS - Most with PVFS recover within a year, ME/CFS described as severe fatigue that goes on longer and includes PEM which is described, plus other symptoms briefly described and advice to seek medical diagnosis and referral
__________________________
PEM

The PEM section is an almost exact copy of this BACME document:
Post-Exertional Malaise
August 2021 Updated February 2025
Parts of it are OK. The general picture of worsening triggered by exertion and lasting a days or weeks, and the advice to avoid it by pacing are basically fine.
Bits that concern me:
page 2
They introduce the section explaining what PEM is by describing normal fatigue that goes away with rest, then say:
Post-Exertional Malaise follows a different pattern and occurs when there is asignificant increase in the level of fatigue after doing your usual level of activity,disproportionate to what you have done. This fatigue does not quickly improve withrest. There can often be a delay between doing the activity and the fatigueincreasing which can make it harder to spot the connection.
They then go on to describe PEM more accurately with bullet points about other symptoms, reduced capacity to function, delay and duration.
page 3
A key feature of PEM is that it does not improve with one good night’s sleep. If your symptoms do not improve with sleep or rest, you may need specialist rehabilitation support.
As usual BACME recommending rehab approaches.

The final section is:

Principles of PEM Management:

• The aim is to reduce the number and severity of episodes of PEM by balancing rest and activity. This is referred to as Pacing.

• The first stage is to achieve a degree of stability or the level of activity that youcan do each day without triggering a delayed escalation in symptoms.

• Pacing involves breaking activity into small parts and taking a rest breakbefore doing another small amount of activity.

• Changing between different types of activity (e.g. mental and physical) canhelp rather than doing one type of activity until exhausted.

• Achieving good quality rest (doing nothing) can be difficult but is one of themost important aspects of managing fatigue and PEM. Activities you previously found relaxing may now demand energy and contribute to fatigue.These can include activities like watching TV, reading, talking to friends,looking at social media or gaming. Good quality rest involves reducing theworkload of the mind and body. Different people will find different types of restand relaxation work best for them.

• Slow breathing exercises can be a good starting point to get your body into a restful state. Listening to calming music or using relaxation and mindfulnessapps can be helpful. Some people find using a weighted blanket or a heatpack helpful.

• Avoiding all activity and spending long periods of time lying down can cause additional problems due to loss of muscle strength and fitness and make it more likely for you to experience an increase in fatigue when you try to do something. If your fatigue has become so severe that you are spending much of the day in bed, ask your GP for specialist support.

• Ignoring or pushing through fatigue symptoms or trying to use exercise to reduce your fatigue usually results in an increase in PEM episodes causingoverall fatigue levels to increase.

• Tracking your daily activity levels and symptoms can help you to find the level of activity you can do without triggering a PEM episode. Once you have identified your individual energy limits, try to stay within these until you have achieved a period of stability.

• Planning, prioritising, and pacing your daily activities can help to manage yourenergy levels. This reduces the likelihood of PEM episodes by working withinyour individual energy limits. It might mean doing fewer activities or doing less than you think you can but will allow you to rest when you need to andconserve your energy levels.

• If you feel you are having a good day, try to avoid doing more. Aim to stay within your energy limits and maintain the same activity and rest framework every day for a period of time.

• If you begin to notice a sustained improvement in your symptoms and arehaving more good days than bad days, gradually increase your activity levels, paying attention to any negative effects or triggers that may cause a PEM episode.

• If an increase in your activity levels does trigger a PEM episode, do not be discouraged. Wait until you feel a bit better, then try a smaller increase in your activity level.

• If your symptoms improve, your energy limits will increase, making it possible to do more activity without triggering a PEM episode.

Again, on the surface it may seem to be sensible advice - pace, prioritise, rest. But it skates over the realities of real life, the examples given are only relatable by people with mild to moderate ME/CFS, there is nothing about how to deal with severe or very severe ME/CFS, warnings about deconditioning, but not warnings about long term worsening, baselines and pacing up etc.
_________________

ME/CFS A guide to symptom management

This is a direct copy of:

BACME ME/CFS Guide to Symptom Management
A 21 page document intended for doctors on what drugs can help some symptoms of ME/CFS such as pain, sleep, gut, and other specific problems. I haven't read it all.
The intro has a non evidence based diagram on predisposing and precipitating factors their 'dysregulation' model and symptoms which is not helpful. It also includes this on PEM with the incorrect characterisation of PEM as fatigue:
Post Exertional Malaise
A characteristic feature of ME/CFS is the way that many forms of over exertion (physical or mental) will lead to an exacerbation of fatigue and other symptoms. The escalation in fatigue can occurring during or immediately after doing an activity but the typical Post Exertional Malaise pattern is where there is a delayed further escalation in fatigue and other symptoms which can happen hours or days after the increase in activity. After a flare-up, it will often take patients a long time to recover to their previous levels. This will vary from patient to patient. Once again, no drug has been shown to mitigate this symptom
I haven't read all the details. The section on Rituximab is out of date.

Conclusion
Currently there is no pharmacologic agent that has any influence on the natural history or prognosis of ME/CFS and all patients should be considered for referral to specialist services for rehabilitation and support. Some ME/CFS symptoms are amenable to drug therapy, andit is hoped that this guide will help with their appropriate use.
Again, the promotion of the idea that 'rehabilitation' is helpful for ME/CFS.
______________

Post-Viral Fatigue - A Guide to Management

Copy of another BACME document, this time addressed to patients.

Post-Viral Fatigue A Guide to Management
May 2020

Specifically about ongoing fatigue after an infection, not about ME/CFS. Seems pretty sensible advice about resting as much as you need to, and restarting activity gradually once you start feeling improvement. All the usual stuff about sleep hygiene, healthy diet etc.
Says most recover within a year. Includes a section introducing ME/CFS as fatigue plus other symptoms including PEM that goes on much longer.
 
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Ignoring the fact that it talks about fatigue as if it's the most important and troubling symptom, has anyone tried this? Has anybody who is bedbound been offered 'specialist support', ever?

and "ask your GP" is such a pointless thing to be told by an app when anyone using the app will already have seen their GP. And so patients go round and round in the system on the promise that someone somewhere will have "specialist support" for them (while HCPs complain about patients seeking endless healthcare use instead of accepting reality).
 
Continuing this section. I'm not attempting to make notes on all of it. Sections covered on a previous post are crossed through. I have bolded the sections I aim to cover today:

Symptom specific resources

Topics covered:

Anxiety
Breathlessness and cough
Cognition
Communication
Emotional impact of Long Covid

Fatigue
Nutrition and hydration
Pain management
Physical activity and exercise
Sleep
Mindfulness
Stress
Social life and hobbies
Voice advice
Information for people affected by Fibromyalgia
Dysautonomia - A Guided for ME/CFS
Post-exertional Malaise
Post-Viral Fatigue - A Guide to Management

Cold hands and feet
Headaches and migraines
Orthostatic intolerance
POTS
Sensitivities, intolerances and hypersensitivities
Stomach and IBS
ME/CFS - A Guide to Symptom Management
_______________________
Fatigue
__________________________
PEM

The PEM section is an almost exact copy of this BACME document:
Post-Exertional Malaise
August 2021 Updated February 2025
Parts of it are OK. The general picture of worsening triggered by exertion and lasting a days or weeks, and the advice to avoid it by pacing are basically fine.
Bits that concern me:
page 2
They introduce the section explaining what PEM is by describing normal fatigue that goes away with rest, then say:

They then go on to describe PEM more accurately with bullet points about other symptoms, reduced capacity to function, delay and duration.
page 3

As usual BACME recommending rehab approaches.

The final section is:



Again, on the surface it may seem to be sensible advice - pace, prioritise, rest. But it skates over the realities of real life, the examples given are only relatable by people with mild to moderate ME/CFS, there is nothing about how to deal with severe or very severe ME/CFS, warnings about deconditioning, but not warnings about long term worsening, baselines and pacing up etc.
_________________

ME/CFS A guide to symptom management

This is a direct copy of:

BACME ME/CFS Guide to Symptom Management
A 21 page document intended for doctors on what drugs can help some symptoms of ME/CFS such as pain, sleep, gut, and other specific problems. I haven't read it all.
The intro has a non evidence based diagram on predisposing and precipitating factors their 'dysregulation' model and symptoms which is not helpful. It also includes this on PEM with the incorrect characterisation of PEM as fatigue:

I haven't read all the details. The section on Rituximab is out of date.


Again, the promotion of the idea that 'rehabilitation' is helpful for ME/CFS.
______________

Post-Viral Fatigue - A Guide to Management

Copy of another BACME document, this time addressed to patients.

Post-Viral Fatigue A Guide to Management
May 2020

Specifically about ongoing fatigue after an infection, not about ME/CFS. Seems pretty sensible advice about resting as much as you need to, and restarting activity gradually once you start feeling improvement. All the usual stuff about sleep hygiene, healthy diet etc.
Says most recover within a year. Includes a section introducing ME/CFS as fatigue plus other symptoms including PEM that goes on much longer.
I think this BACME doc might be one that I found recently (but haven't posted) that I think* is the 2015 one referred to in some articles (where a few who either wrote it or were from BACME were highlighting it now existing to eg Physios in their publication and maybe Nursing Times if I remember correctly?)
 
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