The Mind-Body Syndrome Study (2019) Maroti et al

Written by someone with pronounced stupidity that they devote a lot of time and intelligence dealing with.

I am emotionally aware enough to realise that I need to stop reading this "study" after the first sentence.

 

Yeah that's a doozy. Reads exactly like this:

Education is completely wasted on fools. Shows what happens when people are allowed to make up their own definition of common words.

 

Daniel Maroti posted in Bragée Rehab's old Facebook thread today, saying that they are now recruiting participants to a new study https://mbsstudien.se/

Someone wrote a comment with some really important questions for Bragée Rehab:

Sadly, the reply from Bragée was hugely disappointing and didn't even adress the concerns raised

Another commenter also replied to the person asking the questions:

I can't help but getting the impression that patient safety isn't a priority for Bragée...

(Edited to correct typos.)

ETA: Re: "ghosts in the patient's brain" ("hjärnspöken" in Swedish). I just heard a native English speaker call it "head gremlins", so maybe that's a better translation than the literal one? Please, always feel free to correct any mistakes and typos in my posts! Sorry for the low-quality Google translations, I simply don't have to energy to translate things myself these days.

 

On mbsstudien.se it says:

@Woolie, any comments?

 

As far as I can tell, the pilot study hasn't been published yet.

I think there was a preprint, but it seems it has been withdrawn.

https://psyarxiv.com/4wx5b/

https://www.researchgate.net/public...mptom_Disorder_-_A_Preliminary_Efficacy_Trial

ETA: In case anyone who is registered on Researchgate requests and receives a full-text pdf of this article, I'd be very happy if you would send me a copy

 

Hi @mango

In the quote of one of your posts above they say current neurological research supports their theory. Do they cite their sources? And if so could you post them here?

 

No, they don't cite any sources. I copied the text from this page: https://mbsstudien.se/

I, too, would like to know. I'm sure someone has already emailed the Ethical Review Authority by now, to request a copy of the ethical aproval application for this new study. Will share if/when I find out more

 

Somebody who contacted Maroti, to ask him about the sources for that particular quote, shared the following list:

Recommended general introductory reading: "Hidden from view" by Schubiner & Abbass.

A selection of relevant research studies:

EAET:

Yarns, B. C., Lumley, M. A., Cassidy, J. T., Steers, W. N., Osato, S., Schubiner, H., & Sultzer, D. L. (2020). Emotional awareness and expression therapy achieves greater pain reduction than cognitive behavioral therapy in older adults with chronic musculoskeletal pain: A preliminary randomized comparison trial. Pain Medicine (Malden, Mass.), doi:10.1093/pm/pnaa145

Lumley, M. A., & Schubiner, H. (2019). Emotional awareness and expression therapy for chronic pain: Rationale, principles and techniques, evidence, and critical review. Current Rheumatology Reports, 21(7), 1-8.

Lumley, M. A., & Schubiner, H. (2019). Psychological therapy for centralized pain: An integrative assessment and treatment model. Psychosomatic Medicine, 81(2), 114-124. doi:10.1097/PSY.0000000000000654

Lumley, M. A., Schubiner, H., Lockhart, N. A., Kidwell, K. M., Harte, S. E., Clauw, D. J., & Williams, D. A. (2017). Emotional awareness and expression therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, and education for fibromyalgia: A cluster-randomized controlled trial. Pain, 158(12), 2354-2363. DOI: 10.1097/j.pain.0000000000001036

Central sensitization:

Lidbeck, J. (2016). Central sensitisering bakom svårbehandlad specifik smärta. Läkartidningen. 2016: 113: D4YA
https://lakartidningen.se/klinik-oc...tisering-bakom-svarbehandlad-specifik-smarta/

Vardeh, D., Naranjo J.F. (2017). Peripheral and Central Sensitization. In: Yong R., Nguyen M., Nelson E., Urman R., (Red.) Pain Medicine. Springer, Cham.

Woolf, C. J. (2011). Central sensitization: implications for the diagnosis and treatment of pain. Pain, 152(3 Suppl), s. 2–15.

Other:

An episode of a Swedish radio programme: Vetandets värld (March 3, 2018) ”Kroppens smärta påverkas av själens” ["The body's pain is affected by the soul's"]. Professor of clinical psychology Steven Linton talks about nerve sensitization etc: https://sverigesradio.se/sida/avsnitt/1036481?programid=412

(Tagging @Anna H, have you seen this?)

 

So glad you asked, @mango! What an offensive attempt to co-opt scientific ideas to justify absolute quackery and woo!

First they say you can have "bodily symptoms" without observable physical pathology. Which tells us nothing more than the fact that disease explanations are not perfect (and who would expect them to be?). You can't turn around a negative statement like this and try and make it into some positive claim about what causes those symptoms or how to treat them.

Then they indulge in that all-too-common abuse of the concept "central sensitisation". Its a real concept, which was introduced to explain why repeated pain stimulation (to poor defenceless rats) can cause temporary changes in neurons and tissue outside of those being directly stimulated (heightened responsiveness of other neurons and pain receptors). But it can't be extended to the sorts of clinical problems they are talking about here. There may be some permanent forms of central pain sensitisation that can occur after damage to certain brain structures, but you certainly can't get them from just having a bit of pain - even chronic pain - and then thinking too negatively about it.

I think its really offensive to misuse scientific concepts in this way (although not at all uncommon).

Then it gets worse, the authors claim that we actually know that "nerve pathways" can be "retrained". It makes me furious when people appeal to brain/body mechanisms to explain what are actually behavioural phenomena. Neurons can't be retrained, and they can't benefit from psychotherapy. Only people can be retrained. Only people can benefit from psychotherapy (maybe!)

What? Are they honestly trying to claim that people can cure their symptoms by meditating, writing about their feelings and reading psychoscientific bullshit? OMFG.

Wow,that self-help book "Unlearn your pain" is sure to be packed with useful scientific advice. Maybe even better than "Change your life with crystals"! And the participants were in such good hands - there were Psychology students there to answer all their questions!

These are pretty lukewarm results, given that theirs was a completely open-label design, with no control group. How many people would have improved spontaneously? And how many more would have just said they felt better to please the researchers? I reckon if I made up a psychic surgery intervention, and embedded it within a whole load of pseudoscientific mumbo-jumbo, I might be likely to do better than this.

I've requested a copy of that manuscript, @mango. Will let you know if they send it.

 

I think that book's one of a series, which also includes "Unlearn your medical education" and "Unlearn your lobotomy".

 

Many many thanks, Woolie! I really value your thoughts, and I very much appreciate you taking the time to reply. Thank you so much

 

I don't know if this is the same project or another one. But Daniel Maroti is recruiting for a study on treatment of mind-body syndrome (including ME/CFS) via Stockholm University.

https://www.su.se/forskning/forskni...ling-av-långvariga-kroppsliga-symtom-1.657965

google translation:

https://www-su-se.translate.goog/fo..._sl=sv&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

What are the symptoms of mind-body syndrome? Having a mind and having a body? This is the stupidest name for a health issue that I have ever heard of.

 

Here's from the presentation of the syndrome:

An exclusion criteria is if your physical symptoms are related to a medical condition..