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The royal society of medicine: medical stories and the public (with Stephen Fry & Simon Wessely)
- Thread starter Kalliope
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Kalliope
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
My guess is as Wessely has been involved in a trial recently described as one of the greatest medical scandals of the 21st century by an MP, and as his approach to ME has received so much criticism, and as ME patients are quite active on social media, he should be smart enough to leave ME as a subject altogether.
large donner
Guest
I'm sorry but Im afraid Steven Fry is just a Sallower of Wikipedia a "fact collector".
I came to this conclusion a few years ago seeing him on QI claiming "for every physical illness there's an exact equivalent that is not physical that has the same symptoms which are just caused by the mind".
Probably not exactly verbatim but pretty close. It will probably be out there somewhere on youtube.
He seems to be another one that is buying into the "destigmatisation of mental illness" nonsense narrative. I have long since known because of that QI episode he was a mind body dualism purveyor.
What was so scary was the way the panelists on that episode just sat there unquestionably without calling bullshit but instead sat starry eyed hanging on his pronouncement. I often find this with comedians, if its not an easy target like Trump or Putin they are actually not that informed about anything at all and often just spout the easiest lefty narrative for easy laughs and to make them sound clever and current.
I never buy into such people, I take them all with a pinch of salt until I have heard them actually critically evaluate things themselves.
Don't forget also that Fry probably has a certain amount of Stockholm Syndrome for psychiatry due to his own "mental illness".
Anyone who can just stand on stage and say chose psychiatry without the basic understanding of issues like the DSM just doesn't get a pass from me because they have a posh accent.
Its easy with a certain accent or persona and presentation to go on TV like David Attenborough or Brian Cox and have people just hang onto ever word you say.
The US equivalent is Bill Nye.
I came to this conclusion a few years ago seeing him on QI claiming "for every physical illness there's an exact equivalent that is not physical that has the same symptoms which are just caused by the mind".
Probably not exactly verbatim but pretty close. It will probably be out there somewhere on youtube.
He seems to be another one that is buying into the "destigmatisation of mental illness" nonsense narrative. I have long since known because of that QI episode he was a mind body dualism purveyor.
What was so scary was the way the panelists on that episode just sat there unquestionably without calling bullshit but instead sat starry eyed hanging on his pronouncement. I often find this with comedians, if its not an easy target like Trump or Putin they are actually not that informed about anything at all and often just spout the easiest lefty narrative for easy laughs and to make them sound clever and current.
I never buy into such people, I take them all with a pinch of salt until I have heard them actually critically evaluate things themselves.
Don't forget also that Fry probably has a certain amount of Stockholm Syndrome for psychiatry due to his own "mental illness".
Anyone who can just stand on stage and say chose psychiatry without the basic understanding of issues like the DSM just doesn't get a pass from me because they have a posh accent.
Its easy with a certain accent or persona and presentation to go on TV like David Attenborough or Brian Cox and have people just hang onto ever word you say.
The US equivalent is Bill Nye.
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We can't expect non scientist comedians, or anyone else, to take up our cause and look closely into and understand the issues unless they are given a good reason to do so. It does make me sad though when people with a high public profile and 'national treasure' status unthinkingly quote stuff they've heard about health issues with no understanding of the consequences of their pronouncements. It is worth challenging them when they get it wrong and pointing them in the direction of good information. I have no idea whether Stephen Fry knows anything about ME.
Barry
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I see that @jayletay commented on Stephen Fry's tweet here. I'd like to think Stephen Fry would read Jessica's book "A Girl Behind Dark Glasses". Maybe a complementary copy might be in order? It would be an appalling shame if Stephen Fry did it all wrong, in the sincere belief he was doing it all right.
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Guest
I think he will just fall into the comfort zone of "everything we experience is in the brain". Its unlikely he will look deeply at ME, PACE, MUS the DSM, the Wessely school.
He like most people will prefer to remain in the pontification zone, and with his posh accent he will be used to people hanging on anything he says.
Personally I think he will love the "functional neurological" nonsense and will buy into it deeply.
If there was anyway to challenge him it might be a tweet like "how is CBT for ME different from conversion therapy for homosexuality, ask Wessely for the evidence".
It could backfire though and to be honest I think he has been captured by the mental illness for all narrative.
He like most people will prefer to remain in the pontification zone, and with his posh accent he will be used to people hanging on anything he says.
Personally I think he will love the "functional neurological" nonsense and will buy into it deeply.
If there was anyway to challenge him it might be a tweet like "how is CBT for ME different from conversion therapy for homosexuality, ask Wessely for the evidence".
It could backfire though and to be honest I think he has been captured by the mental illness for all narrative.
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So it looks like Wessely interviews Fry, then Wessely and Fry interview Marsh and Clarke, then there's a panel discussion. No one is interviewing Wessely, so he'll just be there being the genial host. No chance for anyone to even raise the subject of ME, let alone Wessely's role in it. Why would they?
adambeyoncelowe
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Though, as a gay man, he may be swayed by Peter Tatchell's article linking gay conversion therapy and CBT in ME. However, I think he's unlikely to make a fuss at this event either way.
Binkie4
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
What is the dep chief executive of Nice doing there giving the closing remarks especially when ME is in the process of being reviewed by Nice?
ETA:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillian_Leng
ETA:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillian_Leng
Snowdrop
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Simon Wessely would absolutely not invite a guest for something like this unless he knew in advance that it would only increase his profile and esteem. I expect a great deal of blustering talk about how body in mind mind is body in a way that suggests that people can make themselves ill. It will be well crafted to be utterly vague while sounding profound while delivered in a light- hearted and interesting way.
I think ME will be off the table.
When I see any celebrity talk about anything medical I tremble. It's sad but people of great intelligence who we have enjoyed and been entertained by have a really bad track record for engaging with medicine. There are occasional exceptions of course but generally for whatever reason they seem to be overly susceptible to woo explanations. I would so like to find that it is otherwise here.
Simon will score points here for his cause. This is just a PR exercise. Best to focus our efforts on growing alliances that understand the politics of MUS in all it's forms in order to build a larger movement to bring it all down from the shadowy places where the real decisions are being made.
I think ME will be off the table.
When I see any celebrity talk about anything medical I tremble. It's sad but people of great intelligence who we have enjoyed and been entertained by have a really bad track record for engaging with medicine. There are occasional exceptions of course but generally for whatever reason they seem to be overly susceptible to woo explanations. I would so like to find that it is otherwise here.
Simon will score points here for his cause. This is just a PR exercise. Best to focus our efforts on growing alliances that understand the politics of MUS in all it's forms in order to build a larger movement to bring it all down from the shadowy places where the real decisions are being made.
Barry
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
That is a very valid observation. Why indeed? Seems like the old school ties and funny handshakes have been operating in overdrive behind the scenes. One thing's for sure: This is not just happenstance; smells strongly of social engineering.
Wesley and Hawkins, wessely and jo brand, wessely and Stephen fry, wessely and prince harry, wessely Regis professor, working for government and military on mental health, ex president of psychiatrists and every title going. He’s built an impressive don’t touch wall hasn’t he for a man with such a track record.
Jonathan Edwards
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
You need to get this right - a complex nose of biopsychosocial engineering.
NICE have all sorts of conditions under review all the time, I expect. I don't see why the fact that ME is under review now has any relevance to this event. It's not an event about ME.
Jonathan Edwards
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I agree absolutely, but just once in a blood moon things can go terribly not according to plan - with a little help. But it may be best to sit back and watch the antics.
Barry
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Indeed, your point is well made.
Jonathan Edwards
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I wouldn't be so sure @Trish. ME will not be mentioned but for Dr Wessely things tend to be about me, in more ways than one. This looks like straight agitprop to me.
Barry
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
The sceptic in me says that SW will find a way to oh-so-casually drop an innocently-nuanced comment or two along the way, that he can just-plausibly deny have any ulterior motive behind them. His stock in trade, and I cannot believe he would let such an opportunity pass him by, when he must be feeling the need to patch the holes in his sinking ship.