United Kingdom: The Royal Society of Medicine

A fan of Fry, particularly his narration. But I fear he will prove a lost cause on this stuff. Like most with genuine mental health issues, he tends to swallow the whole line and proselytise. For example, he thinks the placebo is a very powerful force. (It really isn't, Mr Fry.)

Happy to be proven wrong. But don't expect to be. :(

This is just another example of Wessely's slimy propaganda tactics. Co-opt, compromise, corrupt.

I fully expect him to run his usual lines about harassment and intimidation, and an ungrateful minority of bastard patients stuffing it up for the vast majority of nice good compliant patients. He won't let an opportunity like this go past.

This man is toxic to sane decent society.
 
Sarah said:
In another time, I would like to have seen Simon Wessely and perhaps Trudie Chalder for, and Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens against, in debate of the motion 'The biopsychosocial model is a force for good in the world.'
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I was/am a big/huge fan of Christopher Hitchens. I never had much confidence that he couldn't be talked into seeing things Wessely's way. A couple of things he wrote here or there about his friendship with Francis Collins might've had something to do with it, I got the sense that when it came to medicine and other topics that were outside of his field of expertise, that he tended to side with 'experts' without diving in as he might've with geopolitics/foreign policy.
 
Esther12 said:
On CFS? I can't remember seeing Fry critically engaging with science issues previously, and Wessely is a smooth talker (or at least, who knows how to appeal to those likely to be in attendance).
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I am not so much thinking of Fry engaging critically, although he is no way stupid and probably could.
I am thinking in terms of this being, if Fry wanted it to be, a standoff between two people who like to, and can, make other people hang on their every word. The question is who would appear credible if the other one said 'you're bullshitting'. Fry would be way ahead on that because he can hold his nerve when being poked fun at. I doubt Wessely has ever had to do that live.

Presumably Wessely has established in advance that this is not going to happen. What was the context of the Fry tweet quoted above I wonder. Maybe Fry assumes ME is a mental health problem like his.
 
JaimeS said:
One of my favorite skits of his mocks those who use logical fallacies. My favorite one is a Frye and Laurie sketch where the pair of them skewer credulous patients who believe whatever a doctor says. He's a very clever man, so I have hopes.
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I respect and admire Stephen Fry hugely, but think you underestimate the chumminess of Wessely with high profile performers such as Stephen. Wessely is a slick operator, expedient as the most expedient politician, and has PR to make you weep. Also, he and Fry have recent history:

 
Trish said:
Sadly, I think you're right, @Nasim Marie Jafry . Stephen Fry is very polite in settings where he has been invited as host - I can't see him using it as an opportunity to skewer Wessely, much as we might want him to.
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It will all be terribly cosy - and maybe a wee bit radical - I love Dr Henry Marsh and his writing - but chances of Wessely being revealed to be the toxic player he is are zilch. Everyone will have a lovely time and Simon will be the star performer, as usual. I did just try and tweet RSM, including Stephen Fry in tweet, but I imagine anything anti-Wessely is pointless in this context - water off a duck’s back.

 
Jonathan Edwards said:
Somebody really ought to get on to Fry and see what he thinks his role is at this session.
Surely somebody here mixes with the theatre set?
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SW's version of ME reality is steadily being exposed as propagandist rubbish, so I would really hope Stephen Fry does some homework to ensure history doesn't show him being taken in by the same glib harmful charm.

It's especially tricky because SW (knowing full well the person he is talking to) will likely employ the tactic that PwME (or at least the 'activists' among them!) are slighting people with mental health problems, when they say their problem is not a mental health issue. Important Stephen Fry understands that PwME only object because it is a flawed diagnosis, and as with any flawed diagnosis therefore get offered incorrect and potentially harmful treatments. Akin to telling a cancer patient to ignore their symptoms, and the best treatment is to progressively exercise themselves back to health.

Private Eye did a thing on ME some while back, Ian Hislop being its editor. Ian Hislop and Stephen Fry have worked together.
 
My guess is as Wessely has been involved in a trial recently described as one of the greatest medical scandals of the 21st century by an MP, and as his approach to ME has received so much criticism, and as ME patients are quite active on social media, he should be smart enough to leave ME as a subject altogether.
 
I'm sorry but Im afraid Steven Fry is just a Sallower of Wikipedia a "fact collector".

I came to this conclusion a few years ago seeing him on QI claiming "for every physical illness there's an exact equivalent that is not physical that has the same symptoms which are just caused by the mind".

Probably not exactly verbatim but pretty close. It will probably be out there somewhere on youtube.

He seems to be another one that is buying into the "destigmatisation of mental illness" nonsense narrative. I have long since known because of that QI episode he was a mind body dualism purveyor.

What was so scary was the way the panelists on that episode just sat there unquestionably without calling bullshit but instead sat starry eyed hanging on his pronouncement. I often find this with comedians, if its not an easy target like Trump or Putin they are actually not that informed about anything at all and often just spout the easiest lefty narrative for easy laughs and to make them sound clever and current.

I never buy into such people, I take them all with a pinch of salt until I have heard them actually critically evaluate things themselves.

Don't forget also that Fry probably has a certain amount of Stockholm Syndrome for psychiatry due to his own "mental illness".

Anyone who can just stand on stage and say chose psychiatry without the basic understanding of issues like the DSM just doesn't get a pass from me because they have a posh accent.

Its easy with a certain accent or persona and presentation to go on TV like David Attenborough or Brian Cox and have people just hang onto ever word you say.

The US equivalent is Bill Nye.
 
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We can't expect non scientist comedians, or anyone else, to take up our cause and look closely into and understand the issues unless they are given a good reason to do so. It does make me sad though when people with a high public profile and 'national treasure' status unthinkingly quote stuff they've heard about health issues with no understanding of the consequences of their pronouncements. It is worth challenging them when they get it wrong and pointing them in the direction of good information. I have no idea whether Stephen Fry knows anything about ME.
 
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