Trial By Error: CBT and Irritable Bowel Syndrome

Is this venture capitalist unable to assess claims of treatment efficacy and a little gullible or does he not care whether it really works or not?

 

They are already forging ahead with a similar product for IBD

https://www.mahanatx.com/treatments/ibd-research

"tap into the power of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy"

wtf

 

I would imagine he would be relying to a large extent on advice from other people about technical or medical aspects.

If in turn those people have fallen for the "expert" opinion currently in favour he may not know or understand anything at all about it.

This could go a couple of ways-

- He is just interested in making money. Even if he makes enough from the health service in the short term he may not care. He'll already have moved on to the next thing.

- If his or his company's good name become tainted by association - that might cost him. Therefore he will care and will pull the plug.

If this goes wrong the CBT brigade could make themselves pariahs to business people and it can be a very small world indeed.

If it goes the other way it will accelerate the use of CBT for everything until eventually the craze passes and the next one comes along. Massive amounts of public money spend on wasted hot air.
Don't we have a regulatory body to ensure that doesn't happen? [sarcasm]

 

http://www.virology.ws/2020/02/17/trial-by-error-my-follow-up-letter-to-mahana-therapeutics-ceo/

 

https://www.berkeleywellness.com/healthy-mind/stress/article/cbt-ibs-worth-try

 

Surprise surprise. It just gets better. I should be shocked but I’m not, I’ve recently been offered hypnotherapy .. yup.

 

I think they originally wanted "Muhaha" but it was already taken by this guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7edeOEuXdMU

So they just went with the next best thing they could think of.

 

I agree. If they can get away with this with IBS, it will have an impact on ME/CFS. Although the ME/CFS community is a lot more outspoken than the IBS community.
The difference is that we know that IBS is happening in the gut, so it's less vague. There is a ton of research that the microbiome has something to do with it and there are even already successful treatments, biomarkers being tested etc.

That means that the CBT brigade is never going away, not even when ME/CFS is more explained than it is now. Not even when it is pretty much fully explained (see IBD, MS and HIV). So I think it is necessary to expose the CBT crowd, because it's just really bad science. It doesn't really matter if they stop doing research on ME/CFS, I want them to stop doing this to everyone. To existing diseases, to potential new diseases, this nonsense has gone on for way to long in the history of medicine.

 

Trial By Error: Another Letter About Mahana; BerkeleyWellness on IBS Study
24 February 2020
By David Tuller, DrPH

http://www.virology.ws/2020/02/24/t...r-about-mahana-berkeleywellness-on-ibs-study/

http://www.virology.ws/2020/02/24/t...r-about-mahana-berkeleywellness-on-ibs-study/

 

Trial By Error: A Non-COVID Post about KCL’s Rejection of My FOI Request - https://www.virology.ws/2020/04/07/...-post-about-kcls-rejection-of-my-foi-request/

 

Really like the last comment (to date) by Scott Simpson

 

The issues are over misleading scientific claims, hence the need for information. A deflection over commercial interests is as meaningless as saying "you can't investigate possible wrongdoing since I'm making money from it and that would be prejudicial to my self-interest". They are making medical claims aimed at dispensing clinical advice, this isn't a simple matter of protecting business and it's an academic institution anyway, different requirements. This ain't a corner rub-and-tug where you can hide something in a back room.

It's an interesting notion, albeit ethically bankrupt, that you can't question misleading science if it aims to be commercialized. Even though of course commercializing misleading medical advice is obviously highly problematic. Now that's a gigantic loophole if I've ever seen one.

Because this is kind of similar to LP and generally the CBT/GET paradigm. The evidence simply isn't there, even though some misrepresentation of it was published in medical journals. But it's a commercial product, therefore not subject to the public interest since obviously more information would unravel the business. This is borderline mob level of skirting legal obligations while appearing to adhere to thanks to protection from secrecy.

Great example of evidence laundering. The findings in the papers are weak. The public claims have nothing to do with the findings, they present it as outlandishly more effective than it actually is (familiar territory, lots of experience). Those claims have "commercial interest" and become not subject to scientific scrutiny. They are lying about their own research. But the research itself is weak and muddied, so is unlikely to be retracted as it makes very weak claims. It's the misleading amplification of those claims that becomes a commercial product, by exaggerating baseless claims but now this is outside of the scientific process so it's not subject to the usual requirements and anyway it's a self-help thingy so has nothing to do with medicine, therefore exempt from stringent clinical requirements.

This is genuinely villainous. It's the same moral bankruptcy we are familiar with so not surprising but this is completely outside of the purpose of scientific research, medical research and, especially, academic institutions. And the refusal here is one of those obvious cases of having lots to hide.

Put a few bad apples in a bunch. Wait a few year and even the barrel falls apart.

 

...but are you surprised?

 

@Trish @Andy anyone got contacts in the APPG on ME? I just wonder if someone can suggest to a friendly MPs that they "report ---suggest---" that the Public Accounts Committee investigates this whole debacle and the role it played in formulating government policy.

I haven't read @rvallee post carefully but for some reason I recall a defence presented in court (by the defendant!) that they couldn't benefit from their own wrongdoing. With "good" legal advice these guys can come up with some strange defences. So these folks took £5 million in public money now they can't be scrutinised since what they did is covered by "commercial in confidence". As rvallee states Universities aren't generally considered as "commerce" quite an "own up" by these guys.

Has the freedom of information commissioner made any progress -- is that where the defence of commercial in confidence came in?

Possibly ask for the £5 million in public money --- if they are not prepared to provide information reasonably required in relation to the contract. Also, possibly if there's a threat to bar them from further contracts, because of their failure to provide information --- then they'll see the economic bigger picture! I guess this university has benefited from further government projects of this nature since then --- so they have something to lose!

 

Nope, sorry, my MP is a Minister in the government so wouldn't take an active part anyway, and I've never had the time, energy or inclination to attempt to interest him in engaging with the whole ME issue.

 

Thanks for the laugh --- humour has underlying truth & I know what you mean about elected representatives!