I'm not sure this document:
...is any more helpful than this:
...in isolation.
Both documents on their own are ripe for misinterpretation and abuse. That's why each has a report attached to it which explains in detail what each criterion means. We should judge the entirety of each criteria, not just a cheatsheet that vastly summarises an approach.
For instance, the ICC summary doesn't explain whether each characteristic of PENE is needed or just one. Each of the symptom domains also include things which may not be anything to do with the domain they're included under (is pain always neurological, for instance?) and offer 'soft' options that are too generic (headaches, GI problems, dizziness) without qualification. All it takes is a person with lots of non-specific issues and a doctor who doesn't understand PENE from that document, and hey presto! Misdiagnosis!
The ICC document also has a lot of things to check off, so there's a danger that in trying to fill it out doctors will 'fish' for answers. The longer you're asked to recall symptoms, the more you start to remember.
So a person who went in complaining of fatigue might be provoked to recall the headaches they occasionally get, the bloating they had the other week, or the dizziness they got that one time in the supermarket. Yet these things may have been caused by dehydration, a bad curry and an inner ear infection, respectively.
All it takes is that doctor thinking that, like the others on the cheatsheet, PENE is a multi-option symptom, and you've got a problem. They might say they get more fatigued after exercise (who doesn't?) and that's that.
And now I fully understand the crux of this miscommunication if you are sure ME does not include immune abnormalities. I have immune abnormalities.. of that there is no doubt. So are you saying I must have a different disease? This also explains why you would not consider the ICC a viable criteria for ME as that criteria clearly describes a disease that has immune dysfunction.
My immune symptoms fit the Th1 Th2 imbalance exactly. Having been at this 29 years... and living in a body that does NOT have any normal immune responses, I am absolutely positive I do have immune abnormalities. I don't have a normal response to colds and flus that go around. I don't tolerate vaccines... attributed to immune dysfunction. I had EBV reactivated... attributed to immune dysfunction.
I could go on, but it sounds like you have set your mind that ME is not an immune dysfunction disease.
So I either have a different disease. Or you and I think ME is something very different.
I'm in many groups with patients who have immune dysfunction and consider themselves to have ME.
If this group does not agree that ME includes immune dysfunction, I'm clearly in the wrong place.
I think you missed the 'demonstrable' part. A few cytokines here and there (sometimes conflicting ones) doesn't demonstrate this conclusively. Things like a 'Th1/Th2' shift are very woolly and may be equally due to recall bias. It's also worth pointing out that Ron Davis has found fewer viruses in patients than in controls so far. The evidence here is all over the place.
Jo has talked numerous times about how people with lax understanding of immunology have overstated the case for immune involvement in ME (and in other diseases). That's not to say the immune system isn't involved, but it is to say that the evidence we have so far is very poor quality and full of pet theories that don't go anywhere.
A faggot fallacy is 'a belief that multiple pieces of evidence, each independently being suspect or weak, provide strong evidence when bundled together' (see
here). I think that the science around ME has been particularly prone to faggot fallacies on all sides of the debate.
Realising that evidence is poor or lacking is not the same as agreeing with the BPS school, though, or not sticking up for ME. In fact, it's precisely because we want to stick up for ME that we want the discussion to be as accurate as possible.
I realise that this is getting off-topic, but in short, we should discuss this based on what's actually there in the criteria, and not overstate weak evidence or cling to some sacred cow or other.