Video clip of a Australasian conference on MUS, mentions ME.

About legal action - others have discussed this and said it would take many years, and of course cost a great deal. I have no idea how anyone stops this unscientific, harmful BPS nonsense though. And now the LP seems to have firmly taken hold.

The colleges and medical associations
don't seem to put a stop to these non-evidenced based practices. In my limited experience, I have noted that a
professional college allowed harm to
continue for a number of years before addressing the problem.

There are lawyers with ME, and other
lawyers involved with our community. None seem open to starting legal proceedings. Perhaps it's their opinion legal action is not the way to go.

But, I do wish something could be done to halt this firestorm.
 
@Trish - yes, being lawyers, they would very likely have considered the chance of winning, what's involved, and funds of course.

This topic comes up from time to time. It doesn't seem to get any traction. Strange world we live in where some with upper level degrees can run willy nilly with their crazy, harmful ideas, and be celebrated for them. Of course, their ideas are benefiting some; it seems that's why they continue to free range.
 
DokaGirl said:
Do some employing the BPS model promote hate and harm? Is there a portion of this type of work that encourages hatred of clients, and potentially harmful practices? Or is this a misunderstanding of the intent of some practitioners?

Or is this a more general outcome and practice in this field? Has it evolved from previous well meaning intentions and practices, to something new tha
stigmatizes and dehumanizes large sections of humanity, in order to reduce them to easily manipulated objects? Or have a significant percentage of BPS theories and treatments always been very harmful, and inhumane?

Is naively taking psych 101 in university the start of a downhill slide into a pit of vipers?
Click to expand...
Intent is irrelevant. Outcome is what matters. The outcome is harm on a massive scale, well-documented and supplemented by hundreds of thousands of complaints over several decades. There is a lot of research making it clear that continued discrimination is a disaster. What's encouraged is flawed logic and dogmatic discrediting of all contradictory evidence, it just happens to lead to massive harm.

They have no excuse about not knowing about the outcome of their work, their own research shows clearly it is at best useless and has no hope of ever making a significant breakthrough, since technology and the overall progress of science has no impact. This work could have been done as-is 200 years ago, the only difference being data analysis done by hand, rather than computer. Everything else exists only in their minds.

This is a professional domain. Those people are expected to pay attention to the outcome of their work. They simply choose not to because it invalidates their belief system, in which they invested their career into. They do promote harm, what they believe is entirely irrelevant to the matter.

There is unfortunately a long tradition of doing that, precisely centered on the issue of psychosomatic misdiagnosis. So this is an old mistake, repeated over and over again, which makes it all so, so much worse. There's no slipping, psychosomatic medicine has always been morally bankrupt, grounded in magical thinking and logical fallacy. It just waxes and wanes as technology pushes entire populations out of their grasp, waiting for a return after enough time has passed to give it yet another try.

There's a good reason for the saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Many lessons have been learned in the past about this, to repeat them again is immoral and inexcusable.
 
alex3619 said:
I am not legally trained, but I do know most law suits for damages have failed. I also know a great many suits for insurance and medical coverage have succeeded. The grounds for a suit, and the type of suit, are specific. There are a great many protections under law afforded doctors.

I have often wondered if we should be considering entirely different legal action, such as injunctions.
Click to expand...
Lawsuits are definitely for later, when hindsight removes all suspension of disbelief. But definitely they are not the only legal tool available to us. In the end it is clear that we are removed all agency, given that numerous complaints are systematically dismissed with prejudice, which is something that is technically not legal, it's a clear ethical lapse.

Maybe there is a way to put medical institutions on the stand to either stand down or make it unambiguously clear, under threat of future legal proceedings, that they are truly confident that no harm is being done to us, despite decades of documented evidence and masses of detailed complaints. In a way, to affirm that we are delusional and this is the reason why our complaints are systematically rejected. I wouldn't even be mad if they did affirm this, it's clearly how they currently operate anyway.

Because the future excuse is guaranteed to be "we didn't know". Surely there are ways to make it so the only response to this is: "we made you confirm that you did know and simply chose to believe otherwise". So far there has been zero accountability, it is not even allowed, and this is definitely not normal.
 
Thank you @rvallee for your comments. Many practitioners don't have to pay attention to the outcomes of their "work" because there are many protective walls in place. Patients who complain are ignored, ostracized, sued, and who knows what else. Follow up is not top of the list to put it mildly. It appears colleges of whatever ilk exist for the protection of the practitioners, not the public. Rather like business persons' associations.
 
DokaGirl said:
@Trish - yes, being lawyers, they would very likely have considered the chance of winning, what's involved, and funds of course.

This topic comes up from time to time. It doesn't seem to get any traction. Strange world we live in where some with upper level degrees can run willy nilly with their crazy, harmful ideas, and be celebrated for them. Of course, their ideas are benefiting some; it seems that's why they continue to free range.
Click to expand...
$

In the end, that's all this is about. There is buy-in into those ideas because $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. That's always the benefit, otherwise this would be nothing more than a fringe ideology with zero institutional support.
 
@rvallee - exactly!

ETA: wouldn't it be great if it was just fringe ideology.

One, two, three, move that ideology up that hill! (along with the big fat boulder!)

Or maybe sink that ideology - depending on how you see it!
 
Ravn said:
According to the conference website (http://www.gpcme.co.nz) there'll be another event in Christchurch in August, this one without the first three but with Mel Abbot who has 3 sessions, one of them for nurses (http://www.gpcme.co.nz/south/programme.php).
Click to expand...

When I was looking at Lightning Process practitioner's websites around the globe a while ago, I noticed quite a few who also claimed to be nurses.

There is actually a video on Abbott's site of her discussing her "Switch" program with a doctor at a previous New Zealand GP conference in 2016. Scroll down the page (Not a recommendation :banghead:);

http://empowertherapies.co.nz/seminars/
 
anniekim said:
It’s interesting to listen to the last 2 minutes of this short 9 minute video, so starting at 7 minutes, where one of the doctors, the Chairman I believe, poses a question as if he is a ME patient. The response illustrates the gaslighting towards pwme.

Click to expand...


As they like elephant metaphors: the real elephant in the room is that PWME lack the energy to do work. This causes us no end of problems. And society's apparent inability, or unwillingness, to understand and accept this as anything more than a moral failing on our part. We are not economically productive units; this is the greatest sin in modern capitalist society.

Furthermore, ME can neither be cured, nor will we die!

Voice over dialogue from 'The Beach' movie:

RICHARD (V.O.)

"After the funeral we all tried to get back to normal, but it just didn't seem right. After a while it became clear that the problem was Christo. You see, in a shark attack, or any other major tragedy I guess, the important thing is to get eaten and die, in which case there's a funeral and someone makes a speech and everyone cries and says what a good guy you were, or: get better in which case everyone can forget about it. It's the hanging around in between that really pisses people off."
Click to expand...

What narrative can they cook up to get us off the balance sheet, and off their conscience? Put us all into a 'bad bank' called MUS and get on with their lives.
 
It is just that they have no concept of how to gather reliable evidence for what they already believe.

What does this mean? Sorry im late 5 years

I read the transcirpt, so there's 2 schools of thought, the functional disorder one and the we haven't got enough research yet, why does he completeu ignore the first? He seems sincere though

you do in the setting with your patients communicate take them seriously accept
35:23
that these are real symptoms it's real pain it's just a lying that people do chronic fatigue
35:29
to work at 130% to produce 70% of their effort and it's exhausting for them and
35:35
it's brutal because they often look fit or attractive or capable and people
35:41
don't understand why they're having this internal process that means they can't work they can't hear the kids they can't
35:47
help out and they live in this world of invalidation and criticism and hearing
35:53
from you it sounds like this has been really awful for you it sounds like the fatigue has been exhausting for you and
35:58
stop you from doing things you want to be able to do is extraordinarily powerful value your time and your
36:04
compassion with your patients sometimes that's the main thing that's needed but
 
Last edited:
Trish said:
This so pisses me off.

How come then, when I had glandular fever and spent 6 months almost entirely in bed, I recovered fully and was very healthy for the next 12 years. According to their theory all that rest should have made me long term sick.

And when I got ME and tried to ignore it and struggled on with working for years I didn't recover, just kept getting sicker.

My experience is the complete reverse of their theories.
Click to expand...
I saw a study saying resting during acute phase of virus infection more likely leads to cfs. Does anybody know what I'm looking for? Looking for it bc was a surprise to me. Just like this back pain rest worsens
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom