What is the evidence for histamine as a possible cause of ME/CFS symptoms?

Just thinking about how you’d do a trial of antihistamines for ME/CFS.

Seasonal allergies might be an issue. Unless you’d be able to get all of the participants to start during the autumn, you might want to exclude people with known seasonal allergies.

Blinding might also be an issue if you’re using gen 1 or 2 antihistamines, because those can have some quite noticeable side effects. Perhaps there are other drugs you could use for the inactive arm that causes the same kind of side effects but has no effect related to histamines.

You’d also need to consider if you want to do H1, H2 or both.
 
if in 5 years I'm also cured I will join your crusade!
More of a quest. Nobody should worry about being bashed over the head and forced to recite dogma. I'm just here for answers.
My histamine issues are different to yours I think because it's very clear I can exacerbate them with high histamine foods. I get itchy and my digestion goes crazy and I get rashes.
We're more similar than you realise. I take DAO, a histamine degrading enzyme if I suspect anything I am about to eat contains high levels.
I now avoid those foods, take antihistamines of h1 and h2 kinds, and take a herb called quercetin that has some evidence for it and a low risk profile.
I've just added quercetin and bromelain back into my daily regime but I've never tried pharmaceutical antihistamines.
 
I shared my long and complicated theory of ME/CFS a few weeks ago:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/a-theory-inspired-by-my-atypical-case.49655/
A part of my theory is that there is a mechanical and chemical irritation of the vagus nerve that causes histamine release.
In my experience it’s absolutely a part of the problem. I also take antihistamines, quercetin, dao and other herbs with some anti-allergy properties.

I did have mild seasonal allergies before I got sick, but there was a moment when I realised it’s not just a basic allergy anymore: I cracked my neck at the base of my skull.

Something unstuck there and I suddenly felt better, then my constantly clogged nose cleared up.
I searched for neck+histamine and turns out it’s a known thing…: Vagus nerve irritation at c1 can cause “cervicovagopathy”, disrupting the nerve’s ability to regulate inflammation and histamine. (I had no pain there by the way!)
 
I don’t have the energy to dig into it, but if I wanted to find evidence against histamine as a cause of ME/CFS symptoms, I would look at conditions where we know that histamines are involved, and see if the clinical picture overlaps.
Sorry this took me a couple of extra days but how about these?

Allergic rhinitis, lupus, coeliac disease, mastocytosis. I'd also like to consider menopause.

Any others?
 
I shared my long and complicated theory of ME/CFS a few weeks ago:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/a-theory-inspired-by-my-atypical-case.49655/
A part of my theory is that there is a mechanical and chemical irritation of the vagus nerve that causes histamine release.
In my experience it’s absolutely a part of the problem. I also take antihistamines, quercetin, dao and other herbs with some anti-allergy properties.
Thank you. 23 pages is a lot to get through but I'll take a look as soon as I can.
 
Sorry this took me a couple of extra days but how about these?

Allergic rhinitis, lupus, coeliac disease, mastocytosis. I'd also like to consider menopause.

Any others?
Eczema maybe?

I also found these, I have no idea about the quality:
 
Observational Study

J Investig Med 2022 Jan;70(1):61-67.
doi: 10.1136/jim-2021-002051.Epub 2021 Oct 5.

Long COVID following mild SARS-CoV-2 infection: characteristic T cell alterations and response to antihistamines​


Non randomised and non blinded. 49 patients were recruited and received standard care. They completed a symptom questionnaire and blood was tested.

The average symptom duration was 268.9 days (range 87 - 402 days) at the time of referral and participation.

The paper is contradictory. At one point it states that all patients were offered HRAs but it later says not all were offered because some patients were first seen before HRAs became part of treatment.

26 patients consented to take a combination of H1 and H2 histamine receptor antagonists (HRAs) for a minimum of 4 weeks and they completed initial and follow up assessment questionnaires. The mean time to response was 29.6 days (median 26 days; range 6–89 days).

The 23 patients who did not receive HRAs were also reassessed between 28 and 119 days after their initial blood tests (median 56 days).

Does this mean that the untreated group were assessed twice (at referral and follow up ) but that the treated group were assessed three times (referral, start of treatment and follow up)? It's hard to be sure but the untreated group had a longer period during which to show improvement.

Whatever the actual timing, the treated and untreated groups together reported more symptoms at referral and participation than they did at initial assessment so symptoms were already improving before treatment was offered.

The average symptom burden per patient +/- SD in the treatment group was 4.28 +/- 1.70 at initial assessment and 2.68 +/- 1.97 at follow up. In the untreated group it was 4.91 +/- 2.57 and 4.39 +/-2.49.

In the treatment group, symptoms in all categories improved except dysautonomia and in some categories there was a clear reduction. See Table 2 in the paper. (Dysautonomia was rather narrowly defined as postural tachycardia syndrome.)

What to make of it?

The duration of illness at referral was between 3 and 13 months. I've been away a while but if the Dubbo study is still considered the standard, then it would be nice to have confidence that illness duration was matched in the treated and untreated groups. A significant proportion of patients particularly at the lower end of the time period would be expected to improve spontaneously.

The treatment was not blinded but at face value, the improvement in some of the symptom categories was impressive, particularly for fatigue, chest pain and neurologic, which included brain fog and headaches.

The authors noted that All symptoms improved except dysautonomia, suggesting that this arises through another mechanism. Indeed, dysautonomia following other viral infections is associated with autoantibodies to adrenergic and cholinergic receptors, is linked with autoimmune phenomena.

I would like to be more excited about this than I am because orthostatic intolerance (probably not PoTS) was a symptom of mine that took a long time to improve but 4 of 26 is far too small a number to be drawing any conclusions about.

That dysautonomia category is generally bothersome. The orthostatic intolerance and autonomic dysfunction category from the ME/CFS NICE guidelines would have been an improvement but unfortunately they were published after this study was run. I can't help thinking it would have caught more than 4 of 26 patients. A pity.
 
Eczema maybe?
I suspect that one will be good for contrasting rather than comparing. So, I'll add it in
I also found these, I have no idea about the quality:
I had already considered and dismissed schizophrenia because there seem to be very few physical symptoms and not much in the way of overlap.

Your challenge to me was to consider other conditions with a known histamine involvement and consider the clinical overlap. I had understood that to mean a comparison of symptoms, since that's all we have to go on with ME/CFS. I think what you have found will be useful for future reference but I would rather stick to specific conditions just now.

We have seven so far.
 
Your challenge to me was to consider other conditions with a known histamine involvement and consider the clinical overlap. I had understood that to mean a comparison of symptoms, since that's all we have to go on with ME/CFS.
My thinking was that if histamines are central to ME/CFS symptoms, then you’d be able to find most ME/CFS symptoms in other conditions where histamine is central.

If you can’t find important symptoms, then that weakens the hypothesis that histamine is central to ME/CFS, and you would have to build up more indirect evidence of it being possible that those symptoms can be caused by histamines.

But there’s also another angle, which is to look at what you’d expect to happen if histamines were involved. My hypothesis is that ME/CFS doesn’t include many of the symptoms of histamine-mediated conditions, so you’d also need an explanation for why people with ME/CFS don’t have those symptoms as well.
 
My thinking was that if histamines are central to ME/CFS symptoms, then you’d be able to find most ME/CFS symptoms in other conditions where histamine is central.

If you can’t find important symptoms, then that weakens the hypothesis that histamine is central to ME/CFS, and you would have to build up more indirect evidence of it being possible that those symptoms can be caused by histamines.
I agree.

But there’s also another angle, which is to look at what you’d expect to happen if histamines were involved. My hypothesis is that ME/CFS doesn’t include many of the symptoms of histamine-mediated conditions, so you’d also need an explanation for why people with ME/CFS don’t have those symptoms as well.
I predict that you are going to be very surprised.

There is considerable diversity in the known histamine mediated disease and many shared symptoms. ME/CFS may not look out of place.

What I propose to do with the seven conditions is to list the symptoms and highlight those which are shared with ME/CFS. For consistency, I'll take the information from the NHS where available. I may also take information from other sources but I'll always provide a link. One condition per post starting sometime tomorrow.
 
I predict that you are going to be very surprised.

There is considerable diversity in the known histamine mediated disease and many shared symptoms. ME/CFS may not look out of place.
You have already said that you’ve dismissed schizophrenia because there’s too little overlap with ME/CFS and that eczema would be a contrast.
 
You have already said that you’ve dismissed schizophrenia because there’s too little overlap with ME/CFS and that eczema would be a contrast.
Schizophrenia is a disease of the brain and has no obvious bodily symptoms and eczema is localised to the skin. They would both be on the end of the spectrum that I characterised as diverse but I don't think I have phrased that very well. What I mean is that they are conditions that don't have much in common with other diseases involving histamine.

There are four histamine receptors and at least four different histamine producing cells. That is scope for a lot of variation in disease profiles.
 
Schizophrenia is a disease of the brain and has no obvious bodily symptoms and eczema is localised to the skin. They would both be on the end of the spectrum that I characterised as diverse but I don't think I have phrased that very well. What I mean is that they are conditions that don't have much in common with other diseases involving histamine.
Yes, but you’d still need to explain why your model of ME/CFS doesn’t include those symptoms.

There are indications that some of the people with eczema have low DOA. If low DOA is part of your ME/CFS model, why don’t the people with low DOA and eczema display ME/CFS-like symptoms?
There are four histamine receptors and at least four different histamine producing cells. That is scope for a lot of variation in disease profiles.
Absolutely, that’s not in question.
 
Back
Top Bottom