Why do BPS proponents keep ignoring the evidence against their ideas?

Mithriel said:
It wasn't one of our usual suspects but I can't remember his name. He said "doctors will see them for what they are and will be disgusted by them."
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It was Wessely quoting a Mayo Clinic doctor:
"The description given by a leading gastro-enterologist at the Mayo Clinic remains accurate: 'the average doctor will see they are neurotic and he will be disgusted with them'."
(Chronic fatigue and myalgia syndromes. Wessely S. - Psychological Disorders in General Medical Settings 1990)
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And now thanks to Wessely's work, they are even more disgusted than before because they can use specific tropes and caricatures to justify their disgust, citing Wessely's own work in the process. We even have research showing it, in their own words.

So the idea that he was bothered by this misrepresentation is obviously invalidated by the fact that he amplified that disgust and is very pleased with himself for it. He has nothing but praise for his work, which accomplished nothing but that, but boy did it accomplish it in full. If anything, he seemed to have wanted to simply give shape to that disgust. And he did, only shape though, no substance, none at all.

They used to be disgusted by us. They still are, but they used to, too. Now they are more than ever, they even have citations for it.

Turns out that rewarding failure is a terrible idea with real life consequences. Who knew?!
 
Hutan said:
... BPS proponents. I think most of them genuinely believe that we could be fixed, or at least greatly improved, if we just got on and followed their advice and abandoned our faulty perceptions of life
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Yes, I think they are totally locked up inside there own psycho-science bubble, and are quite incapable of seeing outside/beyond it, like the flea on the camel's back. Their whole clinical experience revolves around the notion of mental conditions that can be influenced by cognitive / behavioural interventions, that they themselves are the deluded ones when it comes physiological conditions like ME/CFS. Their self-fulfilling prejudice leads them to misinterpret what they see (and what they do not see), and in doing so engage in clinical trials essentially designed (and massaged) to confirm their prejudices.
 
EzzieD said:
It was Wessely quoting a Mayo Clinic doctor
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It's from Alvarez' 1935 paper "What is wrong with the patient who feels tired, weak and toxic?".

I don't think anyone has posted the full, in-context quote from SW's chapter in Psychological Disorders in General Medical Settings before, so I've attached it to this post.
 

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chrisb said:
That is the famous quote attributed to Wessely who was merely quoting it to display attitudes of others. Memory tells me that it was originally Alvarez
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Yes, I was getting confused with the doctor from NI who actually said "They sit about all day in their dressing gowns and eat like horses"

Having said that, I obviously hoard these insults against us and forget they are the thoughts of just a few of the BPS. I hope that does not make me as bad as the ones who claim we are all horrible because of a few angry people.

Then again, we are criticising bad science when we are accused of harassment not personal criticism. The likes of Jon Stone believes he knows what is going on in disease and though we disagree with him he is not nasty in his views so it is more acceptable.
 
Barry said:
Their self-fulfilling prejudice leads them to misinterpret what they see (and what they do not see), and in doing so engage in clinical trials essentially designed (and massaged) to confirm their prejudices.
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This is right, I think. What individual who has invested his/her/their career in an idea and a series of studies promoting that idea could decide at 50 or 60 or 70 not only that their research sucks in fundamental ways but that they are actually responsible for causing harm and damaging people's long-term health? I think changing their minds is not possible. Everyone around that group who has supported their delusions--like smart journal editors, academic hierarchies, medical institutions--likely now has an awareness that this is all bullshit. But they won't act.
 
dave30th said:
Everyone around that group who has supported their delusions--like smart journal editors, academic hierarchies, medical institutions--likely now has an awareness that this is all bullshit. But they won't act.
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I think such inactivity often persists until a tipping point is reached, after which you can get a positive feedback effect (those wanting to speak out but scared to, becoming more emboldened as more speak out, and so on ...). I wonder if the BPS people strongly fear that this guideline could be that tipping point for them, and hence so desperate to block it? If that is their fear, I rather think they could be right.
 
Barry said:
I wonder if the BPS people strongly fear that this guideline could be that tipping point for them, and hence so desperate to block it? If that is their fear, I rather think they could be right.
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I think his is likely the case--especially since the new guidelines undercut, say, the IAPT expansion to MUS and all efforts to treat Long COVID as if it arises from "deconditioning" and "unhelpful" illness beliefs.
 
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