Antivirals as ME/CFS or Long Covid treatments (e.g. valacyclovir, valgancyclovir, amantadine)
- Thread starter Lidia Thompson
- Start date
I received a copy of the study on aciclovir in HHV-6 from 1989 by a French team of researchers under the lead of Henri Agut.
Agut H, Huraux J-M, Collandre H, Montagnier L. Susceptibility of human herpesvirus 6 to acyclovir and ganciclovir. Lancet 2: 626, 1989
They write that they replicated an attempt by Dr Russler and colleagues (Aug 12, p 382) – I think that this means that it was also published in The Lancet – and had slightly different results.
According to Agut Dr. Russler claimed that from the level of activity that he had observed in vitro it could be inferred that it must have a good activity against HHV-6 in vivo when used in high doses. I think what they wanted to say with that was that if the very good drugs against HHV-6 like foscarnet were not available doctors should well try aciclovir – instead of just let the patient die.
Agut and team observed less activity of aciclovir against HHV-6 in vitro. Because of that and some reflections on aciclovir's activity against CMV and yet another herpes virus that I can't follow they conclude that they think aciclovir might not have activity against HHV-6.
Agut made their attempts with an HHV-6 kf strain. Russler used another one. HHV-6a and HHV-6b became two different viruses officially only in 2019.
I think that we actually don't know whether aciclovir has activity against HHV-6b in vivo and whether it depends on high doses.
I am not taking very high doses. I figured out that 4x400mg a day are enough to suppress flares fully if I keep activities reasonably low. In higher doses I feel that I can do more. This is also an observation that patient from Germany from my post above describes from her experience of using aciclovir against ME. She takes a higher dose and she goes to work – I think full time. She speaks of 3x1000mg/d.
What's interesting is that she writes that when she goes on the drug again after a couple of days off – because of the side effects – it takes up to three days until the drug unfolds a power big enough to suppress her flare fully and she adds that the effect sets in faster the more she rests during that time.
I thought it through and read some advice for folks on aciclovir against shingles who are recommended to rest and do the same now. I want to be cautios especially when I don't have a specialist to accompany my aciclovir use yet.
It's interesting that she observes that the drug takes three days until full activity while I observe one hour again and again until the dissolution of my felt inner exertion threshold that without the drug I have learned not to step onto.
Agut H, Huraux J-M, Collandre H, Montagnier L. Susceptibility of human herpesvirus 6 to acyclovir and ganciclovir. Lancet 2: 626, 1989
They write that they replicated an attempt by Dr Russler and colleagues (Aug 12, p 382) – I think that this means that it was also published in The Lancet – and had slightly different results.
According to Agut Dr. Russler claimed that from the level of activity that he had observed in vitro it could be inferred that it must have a good activity against HHV-6 in vivo when used in high doses. I think what they wanted to say with that was that if the very good drugs against HHV-6 like foscarnet were not available doctors should well try aciclovir – instead of just let the patient die.
Agut and team observed less activity of aciclovir against HHV-6 in vitro. Because of that and some reflections on aciclovir's activity against CMV and yet another herpes virus that I can't follow they conclude that they think aciclovir might not have activity against HHV-6.
Agut made their attempts with an HHV-6 kf strain. Russler used another one. HHV-6a and HHV-6b became two different viruses officially only in 2019.
I think that we actually don't know whether aciclovir has activity against HHV-6b in vivo and whether it depends on high doses.
I am not taking very high doses. I figured out that 4x400mg a day are enough to suppress flares fully if I keep activities reasonably low. In higher doses I feel that I can do more. This is also an observation that patient from Germany from my post above describes from her experience of using aciclovir against ME. She takes a higher dose and she goes to work – I think full time. She speaks of 3x1000mg/d.
What's interesting is that she writes that when she goes on the drug again after a couple of days off – because of the side effects – it takes up to three days until the drug unfolds a power big enough to suppress her flare fully and she adds that the effect sets in faster the more she rests during that time.
I thought it through and read some advice for folks on aciclovir against shingles who are recommended to rest and do the same now. I want to be cautios especially when I don't have a specialist to accompany my aciclovir use yet.
It's interesting that she observes that the drug takes three days until full activity while I observe one hour again and again until the dissolution of my felt inner exertion threshold that without the drug I have learned not to step onto.
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Since I was contradicted above that my perception that the effect of the drug was fully developed after one hour couldn't be true because of immunological theory I wonder whether she self-censored here in a way that was in line with what she had learned at medical school in order to be taken seriously.
Currently immune therapies are developed also against HHV-6b. These new treatments will offer advantages over the classic herpes anti-virals.
Arfmeister
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
What I’m curious about is that antiviral’s seem to have other off-target pathways that have other effects apart from antiviral.
As I remember, antivirals can have (strong) immuno suppressing effect. E.g. on bone marrow.
Maybe those pathways could be (partially) behind the patient experiences / remission stories ?
As I remember, antivirals can have (strong) immuno suppressing effect. E.g. on bone marrow.
Maybe those pathways could be (partially) behind the patient experiences / remission stories ?
Concentric_Spiral
Established Member (Voting Rights)
I took Valtrex for 18 months or so because blood work processed at a lab in Germany (I live in Canada) at the guidance of a naturopath showed a weak positive to active EBV. I'd also had mono before the ME/CFS symptoms kicked in. No improvement.