Brain Retraining treatment for ME/CFS and Long COVID - discussion thread

I think it's true this stuff is geared for people with psychosomatic issues
I don’t think we have any reliable evidence at this point that brain retraining is good for anything.
Neither studies showing effects nor how it could work on a theoretical level.

I firmly believe that our lives would be much better if people, patients, carers and healthcare practitioners didn’t push (or chase) unevidenced treatments. I often hear talk about maintaining hope, but that argument crumbles when you look at examples of e.g. acquired blindness or deafness where everyone accepts that we currently have no treatments.
So true.
The damage done by the inability of much of society to hold still and accept is unfathomable.
Holding on to unsubstantiated fairy tales about the power of positive thinking makes the situation even worse.


This made me chuckle, as I never thought I would be that person but here I am, breathing exercises every morning, a gentle stretch and grown up cereal for breakfast
That puts me under a lot of pressure.
Are we talking about the real grown up stuff like bland porridge or are we talking about the almost as grown up stuff with the cool animals?

First! I‘ll pick the monkey!
 
"using the imagination to intentionally bring to mind a thought, memory, or scenario that typically triggers symptoms"

Well, that’s a no, for a start.
It only works with a practical activity, like pruning rose bushes or using the hoover.

Then there’s joy. Humour and joy don’t do anything. I do a lot of that here (apparently I laugh in my sleep). It takes up a lot of energy, even though, of course, we’re laughing. But I’m not getting better.
 
I think it's true this stuff is geared for people with psychosomatic issues, even though they try to distance themselves from that. But from listening to a lot of recovery stories of various programs, I think at least some of those people probably did have physical illnesses and genuinely benefited from calming down their nervous system or whatever mindset/lifestyle shift. I could be wrong. There's obviously a lot of weirdness and sketchy incentives. But some of these stories seem more credible to me than others.
Maybe so.
A lot of Catholics feel better after visiting Lourdes, and some have been cured.
Doesn’t mean people with ME should convert to Catholicism and go to France, though.

A stopped clock still tells the correct time twice a day.
 
I don’t think we have any reliable evidence at this point that brain retraining is good for anything.
Neither studies showing effects nor how it could work on a theoretical level.


So true.
The damage done by the inability of much of society to hold still and accept is unfathomable.
Holding on to unsubstantiated fairy tales about the power of positive thinking makes the situation even worse.



That puts me under a lot of pressure.
Are we talking about the real grown up stuff like bland porridge or are we talking about the almost as grown up stuff with the cool animals?

First! I‘ll pick the monkey!
Has to be the “healthy” multigrain Rice Krispie shapes, otherwise I can sell you some live sourdough scobi yeast for just £600
 
Since this thread is ongoing, thought I'd share my experience with DNRS (dynamic neural retraining system), which I finished recently.
Thank you very much for sharing. A lot of these programs are secretive. Us on the outside frequently don’t know what actually goes on in these programs.
"Rounds" of DNRS is basically saying a series of mantras out loud while walking in a circle (I did it laying down) and then a calming visualization technique where you imagine a happy memory for a few minutes and are supposed narrate it aloud and then imagine a future memory where you're healthy. That's it, that's the program.
I’m really sorry if this comes across wrong. I really don’t want to minimize what you’ve done to get better as many people who try these programs are desperate to get better. But man, that just sounds like my theatre classes on Zoom in 2020. It’s so funny to me. I so often walked around my room in circles being told different speeds or emotions to do. I can’t imagine doing circles in my room again as a kind of recovery programme. I would just start laughing from the memories. What a crazy concept.
 
Thank you very much for sharing. A lot of these programs are secretive. Us on the outside frequently don’t know what actually goes on in these programs.

I’m really sorry if this comes across wrong. I really don’t want to minimize what you’ve done to get better as many people who try these programs are desperate to get better. But man, that just sounds like my theatre classes on Zoom in 2020. It’s so funny to me. I so often walked around my room in circles being told different speeds or emotions to do. I can’t imagine doing circles in my room again as a kind of recovery programme. I would just start laughing from the memories. What a crazy concept.
1990s sales training

What colour hat are you wearing?
 
I think this guy was mentioned earlier in thread, but can't find at the minute.

CFS Recovery Programme - Recovery Academy - Miguel Bautista


Children as young as 10 have undertaken his course. The potential legal and social services ramifications for parents in the UK if child gets worse using these techniques do not appear to be considered.

Ages as early as 10 to 86 years old have successfully participated in the program

Disclaimer

We don’t endorse any of the resources here, but only share what exists. Please do your own research. The information within our resources is from secondary sources, and is not intended to replace medical advice from a healthcare provider. Whilst we aim to provide as much information as we can for free, some of these resources will cost you money if you take them up. If there are scholarships or funding that we can find, we cite them in the resource.

You don’t need a paid programme to heal - many people recover using free content, their own instincts, and time.

Paul Garner and Rachel Whitfield are among the recovery stories.


There are strict rules about no negative talk and only positive support groups are allowed.

Support groups


Edit

Can't find any links to any research but on the blog page there is a survey. It contained one question asking what part fear played in their recovery. 22 people completed it. Hardly worth mentioning really but as it claims evidence of a clear link...


There's an annual Recovery Day, this year was 13 July. This might be the source of claims to have seen loads of photos etc.

https://www.the-recovery-hub.org/blog/chronic-illness-recovery-day-2026-monday-13-july includes link to the Recovery Channel to upload pics and stories.

Learnt something new today. Apparently there is a spectrum of recovery according to this.

 
Last edited:
Paul Garner and Rachel Whitfield are among the recovery stories.
Support groups for long term conditions but recovery stories from people who were not sick long term!

Rachel Whitfield's own blog post details her experience. She started to improve only 8 weeks into the illness. Symptoms were gone after 5-6 months.

Rachel's blog post here. I'm copying the post into the spoiler below for posterity, in case it is edited or deleted.


Over the last year, I have done a lot of unpicking of my Long Covid journey. Below is my latest thinking about what happened and how and why I recovered.

I had long covid. I have fully recovered

It may seem like a miracle as I went from barely being able to walk to the end of my street to running my usual 5k running route and 10 mile cycling route in the space of a week and progressing to a half marathon 3 months later. I’ve since gone onto run the London Marathon.

It’s not a miracle but I do have to pinch myself sometimes and it took me at least another year from declaring recovery to fully believing it and leaving the long covid experience well and truly behind.

Let me take you back to December 2020. I got covid. It was mild (ish). A week of feeling about as sick as a bad flu. I didn’t have the classic three symptoms but I did have the most awful physical anxiety, brain fog and fatigue . I recovered in time for Christmas and went back to work and exercise.

In the beginning of January I crashed. I could hardly think or function. It scared the hell out of me but after a week I felt ok again. I then crashed again and recovered again and crashed again and recovered . The same cycle over and over again. Each time the crashes were worse and the periods of feeling ok were shorter. This is what has become known in ME/Long Covid terms as boom and bust cycles. It was the scariest illness I’ve ever experienced. Debilitating.

At the time I thought this happened because I was doing a lot of exercise and working really hard and the viral load pushed me over the edge. I was kicking myself as I literally felt like I had ruined my life for ever because I had exercised as soon as I recovered and I convinced myself it was permanent.

I went to the GP and my bloods came back normal. They couldn’t see anything wrong with me.

I was advised I had long covid and it was the same symptoms as ME/post viral fatigue /CFS. Main symptoms – crippling fatigue, covid toes; covid strangle throat, burning back, anxiety, tight ribs, inability to regulate my temperature, dysfunctional breathing.

By mid February I realised I needed to take time out, my friends took my daughter to school, her sister came down and looked after her, my partner at the time had to clean and cook for me. I took a full month off work. My friends sent me cook vouchers. I could barely function. My poor Mum must have been going out of her mind as I phoned her every day in bits.

I was advised to rest – physically, mentally and emotionally. Aggressive rest they called it where you lie in a dark room doing nothing for long periods of time. So I outsourced everything I could and cleared my diary.

I now don’t believe that I needed to rest in quite the way I was told but I do believe that downtime gave me the space to work out what was happening and was therefore the start of my recovery.

I was advised by many experts and many fellow long covid sufferers I met on Facebook forums that I should PACE. I was introduced to something called the spoon theory. This meant managing tasks in a day so you stayed within an energy envelope and didn’t go over this for fear of crashing and then building up activity so slowly that you walked for example an extra minute a week and only every other day to make sure you didn’t react to the increased effort and not on days where you had increased other activity such as work. I was improving but it was painstakingly slow and I was frightened.

I believed I would never run again and that recovery to some sort of normal life would take years. I even advised others the same believing I was helping them. I now realise this didn’t have to be the case.

I had the worst insomnia and was told this wasn’t good as would make me worse, which of course made the insomnia worse.

The turning point came at the end of February when three things happened.

I started to notice certain patterns. I would crash just before a work piece. I felt better when I cancelled work. if I thought I had overdone it, I would crash, usually 24 hours later. Same symptoms each time in the same order. As all tests had came back normal, I started to wonder whether my brain had more involvement in my recovery than I had previously thought. (I’m an NLP trainer and had done quite a bit about the mind body connection anyway and know it to be significant) Looking back, anxiety was always my first symptom. At the time I thought this anxiety was a predictor of an impending crash. Over time I learnt it was just anxiety and I could influence this and it didn’t have to mean anything.

I discovered a brain re training programme which helped me realise that my nervous system was in fight or flight and that I was keeping myself stuck there through my worried thoughts. This helped me to realise that it was software (my brain) not hardware (my body) that was running the show and that it probably wasn’t permanent. I made a decision that I was going to get better and when I did I was going to share my story to help others.

I started to look for ways to find calm – meditation, relaxation exercises, finding joy in the small things, looking at my response to stress.

Around the same time, I discovered Nicole Sachs podcasts, the Cure for Chronic pain and realised through listening to various episodes that recovery wasn’t linear but that relapses were an important part of the recovery process and not to fear them and that most importantly I could influence them through my emotional responses and each one contained an important learning.

I started to look for upwards trends which was key. I realised that it wasn’t a coincidence that I crashed before a work piece – my anxiety about being well for work was literally causing me to crash. I also realised that this must be my nervous system and had to be neuro plastic as I had so many different symptoms that moved.

Nicole advised to do a technique called Journal Speak to understand how my emotions might be contributing to my condition. Through doing this, I realised that I had a personality that wanted to please people and achieve but I was living in fear. I had been living in fear for a long time. Fear of failing at work, at parenting, in relationships. There were patterns in how I managed my emotions and I spent time thinking about how I could view things differently. I had been angry about getting covid and how the pandemic had been managed and how it effected me. I had been particularly fearful about giving covid to most of my daughters class. Through journaling I let that anger go.

Over March and April I slowly emerged. Very slowly. I was house bound for a lot of that time. It was tough at times I was so low I didn’t know how I could carry on. Without a doubt the hardest thing I’ve ever done

After months of fighting the insomnia and buying every sleep aid going all of which made it worse not better, I decided mindful acceptance was a better way to go. Ironically, I then started sleeping. I now sleep better than ever.

It wasn’t all horrendous. I discovered a wonderful yoga group for recovery from Covid, bought a hot tub, read a lot and meditated. One of the things that I am convinced helped my recovery right was the fact that I celebrated every success, looked at what I could do and told myself daily that I would recover. I read success stories and avoided too much social media. But I also didn’t spend all my days thinking about the illness, I found things to enjoy about the down time.

I have kept some of these new hobbies. I think I’m conscious of living a slower more compassionate life now and I’ve made some new friends too

At the end of March I went back to work for two hours and of course three days before, I crashed. At the time i thought it was Sod’s Law but now I know that fear had caused this. I decided to do the work anyway. I facilitated a 2 hour workshop session on zoom and after I felt better. I no longer feared work because I knew I could do it in any state. I started to build work back into my life in a phased return over the next few months

I saw a breathing physio at the end of March who diagnosed me with a breathing pattern disorder. I was mouth breathing at 25 breaths per minute. Shallow. She gave me some breathing exercises which I did consistently. I now realise this was caused by fear and the quickest way to convince my self and my nervous system I was ok was to slow down my breathing.

By May I was much better but I still believed I was exercise intolerant and when I tried to exercise I felt the familiar symptoms come back.

I then attended another course and this was the final jigsaw. Suddenly it all made sense.

What I realised had been happening was that I had primed my brain so strongly that I should pace that every time I over did it (like a 10 minute walk when I only meant to walk 9 minutes) I would get anxious, and this would exacerbate symptoms which included a burning back and a tight throat (like being strangled) My brain would then interpret these, get more anxious, generate more symptoms, and enter a vicious cycle and then I would crash. My brain was driving the crashes due to fear of what many experts had told me and my memories of earlier crashes and what I believed.

After the course, I decided I had to have enough confidence in the theory to test it out. I got on my bike. I cycled for 20 minutes and got my Heart rate up to 150 (I had been told to stay below 100) and 24 hours later, I had anxiety which generated symptoms which led to more anxiety, but I was able to talk myself down as I now knew what it was. It was a hard leap of faith after so long believing something else.

That wasn’t the end. It’s funny people tend to think of recovery as a finite thing but over the next year I had periods of extreme anxiety and other symptoms would then come back (a particularly challenging IBS Period) but I no longer feared the symptoms or saw them as permanent because I knew if I worked on the thing that caused the anxiety then the symptoms would fade. Over time I stopped fearing anxiety which was key.

I’m often asked whether this means the illness is in the mind and the answer is no, the symptoms were absolutely real.

The mind body connection meant that my anxieties were causing real physiological symptoms, and this was literally draining all my energy causing debilitating fatigue.

Over the last year of unpicking I now believe that I had been living in fear for probably all of my adult life, that fear was very present during the pandemic and when I got covid. I don’t believe I got long covid because I got covid but because of the fear of having covid. In addition the narrative in the media fuelled this fear. Just before I got covid my partner at the time told me horror stories about people recovering and then getting sick again. I believe this primed my brain which kept the fear alive. The nocebo effect can be incredibly powerful.

I’ve had covid again since. I had it for 8 days where I felt pretty bad but after those 8 days I felt fine and even went skiing and didn’t develop long covid. I think this was the thing that finally allowed me to see it for what it really was and put fear of covid behind me.

I’ve had to relearn that it’s ok to be tired, to be sick, to have good days and bad days and that this is part of being human and I don’t need to make it anymore than that.

I now see the whole experience as a gift because it allowed me a chance to create new choices as to how I live my life and view the world. And most importantly I’ve learnt to be kind to myself and make decisions out of love not fear.
 
Last edited:
Support groups for long term conditions but recovery stories from people who were not sick long term!

Rachel Whitfield's own blog post details her experience. She started to improve only 8 weeks into the illness. Symptoms were gone after 5-6 months.

Rachel's blog post here. I'm copying the post into the spoiler below for posterity, in case it is edited or deleted.


Over the last year, I have done a lot of unpicking of my Long Covid journey. Below is my latest thinking about what happened and how and why I recovered.

I had long covid. I have fully recovered

It may seem like a miracle as I went from barely being able to walk to the end of my street to running my usual 5k running route and 10 mile cycling route in the space of a week and progressing to a half marathon 3 months later. I’ve since gone onto run the London Marathon.

It’s not a miracle but I do have to pinch myself sometimes and it took me at least another year from declaring recovery to fully believing it and leaving the long covid experience well and truly behind.

Let me take you back to December 2020. I got covid. It was mild (ish). A week of feeling about as sick as a bad flu. I didn’t have the classic three symptoms but I did have the most awful physical anxiety, brain fog and fatigue . I recovered in time for Christmas and went back to work and exercise.

In the beginning of January I crashed. I could hardly think or function. It scared the hell out of me but after a week I felt ok again. I then crashed again and recovered again and crashed again and recovered . The same cycle over and over again. Each time the crashes were worse and the periods of feeling ok were shorter. This is what has become known in ME/Long Covid terms as boom and bust cycles. It was the scariest illness I’ve ever experienced. Debilitating.

At the time I thought this happened because I was doing a lot of exercise and working really hard and the viral load pushed me over the edge. I was kicking myself as I literally felt like I had ruined my life for ever because I had exercised as soon as I recovered and I convinced myself it was permanent.

I went to the GP and my bloods came back normal. They couldn’t see anything wrong with me.

I was advised I had long covid and it was the same symptoms as ME/post viral fatigue /CFS. Main symptoms – crippling fatigue, covid toes; covid strangle throat, burning back, anxiety, tight ribs, inability to regulate my temperature, dysfunctional breathing.

By mid February I realised I needed to take time out, my friends took my daughter to school, her sister came down and looked after her, my partner at the time had to clean and cook for me. I took a full month off work. My friends sent me cook vouchers. I could barely function. My poor Mum must have been going out of her mind as I phoned her every day in bits.

I was advised to rest – physically, mentally and emotionally. Aggressive rest they called it where you lie in a dark room doing nothing for long periods of time. So I outsourced everything I could and cleared my diary.

I now don’t believe that I needed to rest in quite the way I was told but I do believe that downtime gave me the space to work out what was happening and was therefore the start of my recovery.

I was advised by many experts and many fellow long covid sufferers I met on Facebook forums that I should PACE. I was introduced to something called the spoon theory. This meant managing tasks in a day so you stayed within an energy envelope and didn’t go over this for fear of crashing and then building up activity so slowly that you walked for example an extra minute a week and only every other day to make sure you didn’t react to the increased effort and not on days where you had increased other activity such as work. I was improving but it was painstakingly slow and I was frightened.

I believed I would never run again and that recovery to some sort of normal life would take years. I even advised others the same believing I was helping them. I now realise this didn’t have to be the case.

I had the worst insomnia and was told this wasn’t good as would make me worse, which of course made the insomnia worse.

The turning point came at the end of February when three things happened.

I started to notice certain patterns. I would crash just before a work piece. I felt better when I cancelled work. if I thought I had overdone it, I would crash, usually 24 hours later. Same symptoms each time in the same order. As all tests had came back normal, I started to wonder whether my brain had more involvement in my recovery than I had previously thought. (I’m an NLP trainer and had done quite a bit about the mind body connection anyway and know it to be significant) Looking back, anxiety was always my first symptom. At the time I thought this anxiety was a predictor of an impending crash. Over time I learnt it was just anxiety and I could influence this and it didn’t have to mean anything.

I discovered a brain re training programme which helped me realise that my nervous system was in fight or flight and that I was keeping myself stuck there through my worried thoughts. This helped me to realise that it was software (my brain) not hardware (my body) that was running the show and that it probably wasn’t permanent. I made a decision that I was going to get better and when I did I was going to share my story to help others.

I started to look for ways to find calm – meditation, relaxation exercises, finding joy in the small things, looking at my response to stress.

Around the same time, I discovered Nicole Sachs podcasts, the Cure for Chronic pain and realised through listening to various episodes that recovery wasn’t linear but that relapses were an important part of the recovery process and not to fear them and that most importantly I could influence them through my emotional responses and each one contained an important learning.

I started to look for upwards trends which was key. I realised that it wasn’t a coincidence that I crashed before a work piece – my anxiety about being well for work was literally causing me to crash. I also realised that this must be my nervous system and had to be neuro plastic as I had so many different symptoms that moved.

Nicole advised to do a technique called Journal Speak to understand how my emotions might be contributing to my condition. Through doing this, I realised that I had a personality that wanted to please people and achieve but I was living in fear. I had been living in fear for a long time. Fear of failing at work, at parenting, in relationships. There were patterns in how I managed my emotions and I spent time thinking about how I could view things differently. I had been angry about getting covid and how the pandemic had been managed and how it effected me. I had been particularly fearful about giving covid to most of my daughters class. Through journaling I let that anger go.

Over March and April I slowly emerged. Very slowly. I was house bound for a lot of that time. It was tough at times I was so low I didn’t know how I could carry on. Without a doubt the hardest thing I’ve ever done

After months of fighting the insomnia and buying every sleep aid going all of which made it worse not better, I decided mindful acceptance was a better way to go. Ironically, I then started sleeping. I now sleep better than ever.

It wasn’t all horrendous. I discovered a wonderful yoga group for recovery from Covid, bought a hot tub, read a lot and meditated. One of the things that I am convinced helped my recovery right was the fact that I celebrated every success, looked at what I could do and told myself daily that I would recover. I read success stories and avoided too much social media. But I also didn’t spend all my days thinking about the illness, I found things to enjoy about the down time.

I have kept some of these new hobbies. I think I’m conscious of living a slower more compassionate life now and I’ve made some new friends too

At the end of March I went back to work for two hours and of course three days before, I crashed. At the time i thought it was Sod’s Law but now I know that fear had caused this. I decided to do the work anyway. I facilitated a 2 hour workshop session on zoom and after I felt better. I no longer feared work because I knew I could do it in any state. I started to build work back into my life in a phased return over the next few months

I saw a breathing physio at the end of March who diagnosed me with a breathing pattern disorder. I was mouth breathing at 25 breaths per minute. Shallow. She gave me some breathing exercises which I did consistently. I now realise this was caused by fear and the quickest way to convince my self and my nervous system I was ok was to slow down my breathing.

By May I was much better but I still believed I was exercise intolerant and when I tried to exercise I felt the familiar symptoms come back.

I then attended another course and this was the final jigsaw. Suddenly it all made sense.

What I realised had been happening was that I had primed my brain so strongly that I should pace that every time I over did it (like a 10 minute walk when I only meant to walk 9 minutes) I would get anxious, and this would exacerbate symptoms which included a burning back and a tight throat (like being strangled) My brain would then interpret these, get more anxious, generate more symptoms, and enter a vicious cycle and then I would crash. My brain was driving the crashes due to fear of what many experts had told me and my memories of earlier crashes and what I believed.

After the course, I decided I had to have enough confidence in the theory to test it out. I got on my bike. I cycled for 20 minutes and got my Heart rate up to 150 (I had been told to stay below 100) and 24 hours later, I had anxiety which generated symptoms which led to more anxiety, but I was able to talk myself down as I now knew what it was. It was a hard leap of faith after so long believing something else.

That wasn’t the end. It’s funny people tend to think of recovery as a finite thing but over the next year I had periods of extreme anxiety and other symptoms would then come back (a particularly challenging IBS Period) but I no longer feared the symptoms or saw them as permanent because I knew if I worked on the thing that caused the anxiety then the symptoms would fade. Over time I stopped fearing anxiety which was key.

I’m often asked whether this means the illness is in the mind and the answer is no, the symptoms were absolutely real.

The mind body connection meant that my anxieties were causing real physiological symptoms, and this was literally draining all my energy causing debilitating fatigue.

Over the last year of unpicking I now believe that I had been living in fear for probably all of my adult life, that fear was very present during the pandemic and when I got covid. I don’t believe I got long covid because I got covid but because of the fear of having covid. In addition the narrative in the media fuelled this fear. Just before I got covid my partner at the time told me horror stories about people recovering and then getting sick again. I believe this primed my brain which kept the fear alive. The nocebo effect can be incredibly powerful.

I’ve had covid again since. I had it for 8 days where I felt pretty bad but after those 8 days I felt fine and even went skiing and didn’t develop long covid. I think this was the thing that finally allowed me to see it for what it really was and put fear of covid behind me.

I’ve had to relearn that it’s ok to be tired, to be sick, to have good days and bad days and that this is part of being human and I don’t need to make it anymore than that.

I now see the whole experience as a gift because it allowed me a chance to create new choices as to how I live my life and view the world. And most importantly I’ve learnt to be kind to myself and make decisions out of love not fear.
Well I suppose if we are now expected to refer to therapy for ME/CFS and Long Covid as Holistic Recovery as many of them do, then there's no need for the NHS covering this illness at all. We'll just get referred to alternative therapists. It wouldn't be complementary therapy because according to this lot we don't need any GP care. which puts the patients slap bang in the middle.​
There was a time in the UK when the medical profession would scream fraud at any alternative therapy, or medical negligence for any professional recommending it.​
GPs socially prescribe to outside source - no responsibilty for outcome. All the disclaimers on these sites say it's not in replacement of medical care so they're covered and no negative talk allowed so no professional indemnity required as no harm is done at all. When you factor into this soup that 'recovery' is stated for some as a being a lifelong journey, and if it takes us that long then we're all too fearful and its our fault anyway. What was the phrase - you're welcome to sit back and wait. All this is based on an unproven theory, but apparently that's OK now in the UK as well.​
So making my decision out of "love and not fear", I'll just go back to where I was 4 days ago.​
 
Support groups for long term conditions but recovery stories from people who were not sick long term!

Rachel Whitfield's own blog post details her experience. She started to improve only 8 weeks into the illness. Symptoms were gone after 5-6 months.

Rachel's blog post here. I'm copying the post into the spoiler below for posterity, in case it is edited or deleted.


Over the last year, I have done a lot of unpicking of my Long Covid journey. Below is my latest thinking about what happened and how and why I recovered.

I had long covid. I have fully recovered

It may seem like a miracle as I went from barely being able to walk to the end of my street to running my usual 5k running route and 10 mile cycling route in the space of a week and progressing to a half marathon 3 months later. I’ve since gone onto run the London Marathon.

It’s not a miracle but I do have to pinch myself sometimes and it took me at least another year from declaring recovery to fully believing it and leaving the long covid experience well and truly behind.

Let me take you back to December 2020. I got covid. It was mild (ish). A week of feeling about as sick as a bad flu. I didn’t have the classic three symptoms but I did have the most awful physical anxiety, brain fog and fatigue . I recovered in time for Christmas and went back to work and exercise.

In the beginning of January I crashed. I could hardly think or function. It scared the hell out of me but after a week I felt ok again. I then crashed again and recovered again and crashed again and recovered . The same cycle over and over again. Each time the crashes were worse and the periods of feeling ok were shorter. This is what has become known in ME/Long Covid terms as boom and bust cycles. It was the scariest illness I’ve ever experienced. Debilitating.

At the time I thought this happened because I was doing a lot of exercise and working really hard and the viral load pushed me over the edge. I was kicking myself as I literally felt like I had ruined my life for ever because I had exercised as soon as I recovered and I convinced myself it was permanent.

I went to the GP and my bloods came back normal. They couldn’t see anything wrong with me.

I was advised I had long covid and it was the same symptoms as ME/post viral fatigue /CFS. Main symptoms – crippling fatigue, covid toes; covid strangle throat, burning back, anxiety, tight ribs, inability to regulate my temperature, dysfunctional breathing.

By mid February I realised I needed to take time out, my friends took my daughter to school, her sister came down and looked after her, my partner at the time had to clean and cook for me. I took a full month off work. My friends sent me cook vouchers. I could barely function. My poor Mum must have been going out of her mind as I phoned her every day in bits.

I was advised to rest – physically, mentally and emotionally. Aggressive rest they called it where you lie in a dark room doing nothing for long periods of time. So I outsourced everything I could and cleared my diary.

I now don’t believe that I needed to rest in quite the way I was told but I do believe that downtime gave me the space to work out what was happening and was therefore the start of my recovery.

I was advised by many experts and many fellow long covid sufferers I met on Facebook forums that I should PACE. I was introduced to something called the spoon theory. This meant managing tasks in a day so you stayed within an energy envelope and didn’t go over this for fear of crashing and then building up activity so slowly that you walked for example an extra minute a week and only every other day to make sure you didn’t react to the increased effort and not on days where you had increased other activity such as work. I was improving but it was painstakingly slow and I was frightened.

I believed I would never run again and that recovery to some sort of normal life would take years. I even advised others the same believing I was helping them. I now realise this didn’t have to be the case.

I had the worst insomnia and was told this wasn’t good as would make me worse, which of course made the insomnia worse.

The turning point came at the end of February when three things happened.

I started to notice certain patterns. I would crash just before a work piece. I felt better when I cancelled work. if I thought I had overdone it, I would crash, usually 24 hours later. Same symptoms each time in the same order. As all tests had came back normal, I started to wonder whether my brain had more involvement in my recovery than I had previously thought. (I’m an NLP trainer and had done quite a bit about the mind body connection anyway and know it to be significant) Looking back, anxiety was always my first symptom. At the time I thought this anxiety was a predictor of an impending crash. Over time I learnt it was just anxiety and I could influence this and it didn’t have to mean anything.

I discovered a brain re training programme which helped me realise that my nervous system was in fight or flight and that I was keeping myself stuck there through my worried thoughts. This helped me to realise that it was software (my brain) not hardware (my body) that was running the show and that it probably wasn’t permanent. I made a decision that I was going to get better and when I did I was going to share my story to help others.

I started to look for ways to find calm – meditation, relaxation exercises, finding joy in the small things, looking at my response to stress.

Around the same time, I discovered Nicole Sachs podcasts, the Cure for Chronic pain and realised through listening to various episodes that recovery wasn’t linear but that relapses were an important part of the recovery process and not to fear them and that most importantly I could influence them through my emotional responses and each one contained an important learning.

I started to look for upwards trends which was key. I realised that it wasn’t a coincidence that I crashed before a work piece – my anxiety about being well for work was literally causing me to crash. I also realised that this must be my nervous system and had to be neuro plastic as I had so many different symptoms that moved.

Nicole advised to do a technique called Journal Speak to understand how my emotions might be contributing to my condition. Through doing this, I realised that I had a personality that wanted to please people and achieve but I was living in fear. I had been living in fear for a long time. Fear of failing at work, at parenting, in relationships. There were patterns in how I managed my emotions and I spent time thinking about how I could view things differently. I had been angry about getting covid and how the pandemic had been managed and how it effected me. I had been particularly fearful about giving covid to most of my daughters class. Through journaling I let that anger go.

Over March and April I slowly emerged. Very slowly. I was house bound for a lot of that time. It was tough at times I was so low I didn’t know how I could carry on. Without a doubt the hardest thing I’ve ever done

After months of fighting the insomnia and buying every sleep aid going all of which made it worse not better, I decided mindful acceptance was a better way to go. Ironically, I then started sleeping. I now sleep better than ever.

It wasn’t all horrendous. I discovered a wonderful yoga group for recovery from Covid, bought a hot tub, read a lot and meditated. One of the things that I am convinced helped my recovery right was the fact that I celebrated every success, looked at what I could do and told myself daily that I would recover. I read success stories and avoided too much social media. But I also didn’t spend all my days thinking about the illness, I found things to enjoy about the down time.

I have kept some of these new hobbies. I think I’m conscious of living a slower more compassionate life now and I’ve made some new friends too

At the end of March I went back to work for two hours and of course three days before, I crashed. At the time i thought it was Sod’s Law but now I know that fear had caused this. I decided to do the work anyway. I facilitated a 2 hour workshop session on zoom and after I felt better. I no longer feared work because I knew I could do it in any state. I started to build work back into my life in a phased return over the next few months

I saw a breathing physio at the end of March who diagnosed me with a breathing pattern disorder. I was mouth breathing at 25 breaths per minute. Shallow. She gave me some breathing exercises which I did consistently. I now realise this was caused by fear and the quickest way to convince my self and my nervous system I was ok was to slow down my breathing.

By May I was much better but I still believed I was exercise intolerant and when I tried to exercise I felt the familiar symptoms come back.

I then attended another course and this was the final jigsaw. Suddenly it all made sense.

What I realised had been happening was that I had primed my brain so strongly that I should pace that every time I over did it (like a 10 minute walk when I only meant to walk 9 minutes) I would get anxious, and this would exacerbate symptoms which included a burning back and a tight throat (like being strangled) My brain would then interpret these, get more anxious, generate more symptoms, and enter a vicious cycle and then I would crash. My brain was driving the crashes due to fear of what many experts had told me and my memories of earlier crashes and what I believed.

After the course, I decided I had to have enough confidence in the theory to test it out. I got on my bike. I cycled for 20 minutes and got my Heart rate up to 150 (I had been told to stay below 100) and 24 hours later, I had anxiety which generated symptoms which led to more anxiety, but I was able to talk myself down as I now knew what it was. It was a hard leap of faith after so long believing something else.

That wasn’t the end. It’s funny people tend to think of recovery as a finite thing but over the next year I had periods of extreme anxiety and other symptoms would then come back (a particularly challenging IBS Period) but I no longer feared the symptoms or saw them as permanent because I knew if I worked on the thing that caused the anxiety then the symptoms would fade. Over time I stopped fearing anxiety which was key.

I’m often asked whether this means the illness is in the mind and the answer is no, the symptoms were absolutely real.

The mind body connection meant that my anxieties were causing real physiological symptoms, and this was literally draining all my energy causing debilitating fatigue.

Over the last year of unpicking I now believe that I had been living in fear for probably all of my adult life, that fear was very present during the pandemic and when I got covid. I don’t believe I got long covid because I got covid but because of the fear of having covid. In addition the narrative in the media fuelled this fear. Just before I got covid my partner at the time told me horror stories about people recovering and then getting sick again. I believe this primed my brain which kept the fear alive. The nocebo effect can be incredibly powerful.

I’ve had covid again since. I had it for 8 days where I felt pretty bad but after those 8 days I felt fine and even went skiing and didn’t develop long covid. I think this was the thing that finally allowed me to see it for what it really was and put fear of covid behind me.

I’ve had to relearn that it’s ok to be tired, to be sick, to have good days and bad days and that this is part of being human and I don’t need to make it anymore than that.

I now see the whole experience as a gift because it allowed me a chance to create new choices as to how I live my life and view the world. And most importantly I’ve learnt to be kind to myself and make decisions out of love not fear.
Imagine being “advised” you have ME after 8 weeks, so if it was a GP saying that you have grounds for a serious complaint.

Advised to pace but writes it all in caps, amazing SEO
 
7: you step back into your higher self and ask how you are choosing to be now 8: then you repeat your proclamation which goes something like "I am happy and healthy and strong everywhere all the time forever." Then steps 9 and 10 are the past and future visualizations.
There are strict rules about no negative talk and only positive support groups are allowed.
'Happy and healthy and strong everywhere all the time forever'

I thought they were aiming to cure a distorted sense of reality, not create one? Doesn't this set every single person up to fail when they don't live happily ever after and for forever? Is that the point, to have everyone feel a failure when they can't maintain the illusion - so you have to come back and pay another $600 for a refresher course?

Surely knowing and accepting that sometimes you won't be happy and/or healthy and/or strong, and nothing about humans is forever is much more psychologically healthy and mature? I don't understand how anyone sane can say those sorts of things and not have massive amounts of, what's the word? inner rebellion? incredulity? embarrassment?
 
The brain science of Predictive Coding
Ooh. It has capitals, so it must be Very Serious & Important™.

You are on a journey to recovery."
aka The "process of recovery", as defined by the PACE authors. Post-hoc, of course.

What do we mean by recovery?

Recovery, and what it means to you, is personal.

Recovery for some can mean being able to function and carry out the basics.

It can mean being able to socialise, go to work and spend quality time with your family.

For others it can mean 100% recovery and getting back to the life they lost.
The very essence of unfalsifiable

You are supposed to do this every day for an hour for six months
Hands up here who has the capacity to do that.

Couple thoughts on all this: I don't think we (the skeptics) do ourselves any favors to attribute ALL the recovery stories from brain retraining to natural recovery or to say the person just had psychosomatic issues.
That is not what is being said. What is being said is show us the methodologically robust evidence for their claim about why it happened (including that they had the disease they claim to have recovered from). Which they never do.

The fact that instead of making honest competent efforts to produce such evidence they instead start rubbishing robust methodology and those asking that they use it, tells you every thing you need to know about the legitimacy of their claim.

The illusion of there being effective treatments out there not only robs patients of the opportunity to grieve and accept,
This. It is very cruel.

'Happy and healthy and strong everywhere all the time forever'
That is approaching as extreme and pathological as delusions get.
 
There are strict rules about no negative talk and only positive support groups are allowed.

Support groups

Ok, so this is interesting.
On the Recovery Hub there’s a prominent quote:


“It took me 10 years to get to the root of my illness, all on my own. If I had had access to this space I would have gotten there so much quicker”​

— KATY MCGHIE, FOUNDER​


At the bottom of the Recovery Hub website is a link to their sister site https://www.forgotthesnacks.com, a site for neurodivergent parents.
A blog on that parenting site goes into more details:
[my bolding]

UNDIAGNOSED AND UNSEEN

I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until I was 41. By that point, the damage was irreversible.

As a child, I was confident, curious, and energetic. But by my teenage years, that confidence had vanished, replaced with painful insecurity and an overwhelming belief that something was deeply wrong with me.

ADHD isn't simply about being easily distracted or forgetful. For me, it has meant a lifetime of hidden battles and self-destruction. I spent ten years suffering from ME/CFS, years lost entirely due to exhaustion from masking, relentless self-criticism, perfectionism born out of fear of failure, and desperate people-pleasing for acceptance.

My nervous system has been in survival mode since adolescence, permanently on high alert, always scanning for threats. I've spent decades conforming to the expectations and personalities of those around me, losing sight of my authentic self.


Then there’s joy. Humour and joy don’t do anything. I do a lot of that here (apparently I laugh in my sleep). It takes up a lot of energy, even though, of course, we’re laughing. But I’m not getting better.
I tend to laugh in my sleep, too, @Axel!
My dreams are actually by far the most entertaining and fun time of my day.
However, I start to sense that some of these "recoverees" might talk about joy coming from a completely different background than us:

THE IMPOSSIBLE QUEST FOR JOY

Joy is rare. Instead, I obsessively focus on achievements, believing I must constantly prove my worth to feel safe and acceptable. ADHD makes forming and maintaining healthy habits impossible. I binge eat for dopamine hits, and constantly start projects I can't finish, each abandoned idea feeling like another personal failure.

I’ve done extensive work to heal myself, recovering from CFS, addressing my perfectionism and people-pleasing, confronting my limiting beliefs and childhood coping strategies. Barely a week goes by without me battling to find peace through new books or techniques. I know myself inside out. Yet, ADHD stops me from translating these insights into lasting habits. I start journaling, then stop flossing. I begin intermittent fasting, then stop journaling. Maintaining even one habit consistently feels unattainable.

Since discovering that medication could help me achieve more stability - controlling my binge eating and establishing consistent habits - I have actually gained two dress sizes. My ability to fight the constant battle against binge eating has weakened because years of repeated cycles of trying and failing have become too exhausting, and I know that soon, maybe, there will be some help. Knowing a solution exists yet being denied access has left me feeling more out of control than ever.
 
Couple thoughts on all this: I don't think we (the skeptics) do ourselves any favors to attribute ALL the recovery stories from brain retraining to natural recovery or to say the person just had psychosomatic issues. That's certainly the case for some, but I think some people probably do recover from unexplained chronic illness from these sorts of things.

Some people do recover at a time when they are engaged in these techniques but I think there is ample room for explaining that without needing the technique to cause the improvement. As has been pointed out there are tens of millions of people who think they have benefited from chiropraxy in the Western world and so a few hundred thinking brain training worked is no big deal.

But, I do agree with the thought that we should not dismiss the possibility that something more complicated is going on.

Which raises a thought about something we have discussed off and on - that there might be a group of 'others' who get diagnosed with ME/CFS and report the same symptoms, it seems, yet this group has a problem that is reversible in a way that members' here ME/CFS is generally not.

I am not particularly in favour of this hypothesis but wonder if there is a way to explain it in physical terms. My investigations of how brains think has led me to understand that neurons in various parts of the brain all receive rich inputs of information about the world or oneself or oneself in the world or whatever, at all sorts of different levels, for different usages. (This is neurobiological fact but few people seem to acknowledge it.) Our conscious thoughts appear to be based on the inputs to certain high level neurons that may be in the cortex but might be in thalamus or caudate or even cerebellum.

Let us say that you get a diagnosis of ME/CFS if the information coming in to these 'me' cells contains all the horrors of PEM and exhaustion and so on that are reported. If so, it is more than likely that the mistake that sends this information in is occurring somewhere else. It may be in the immune system or it may be in this or that other bit of brain.

Let us say that the conscious story of ME/CFS is in some cortical cells, maybe frontal cortex. And for members here let us postulate that it arises because of errors in pathways in dorsal root ganglia or cerebellum where CA10 and BTN2A1 hang out. But then let us say that you can also get similar rogue information generated by errors in cingulate gyrus or amygdala.

The next thing to suggest is that a loop involving amygdala or cingulate is open to psychosocial input. But the DRG or cerebellar errors are completely below this level of input and untouched by it. As a trivial example, you might shed tears when watching a film and if you turn the film off you stop crying. But if you shed tears because you are in a room full of ammonia that doesn't work.

One would think that there ought to be some simple way to distinguish the two situations and separate ME/CFS from this other problem. But my experience of people who believe they have diseases they do not have suggests that the distinction normally rests on physical signs - for which there aren't any in ME/CFS.

The implication of all this might be that rather than deny that anyone could possibly be cured by brain retraining it would be better to say 'OK, your sort of problem might have responded but what makes you think that most diagnosed ME/CFS is like that?'
 
I can find the references if really needed, but IIRC, the misdiagnosis rate of ME/CFS by GPs is something like a massive 50% when compared to specialists conducting research e.g. PACE trial, Newton et al, which themselves might not have been accurately diagnosing ME/CFS if using outdated criteria.

Combine that with how self-reported ME/CFS is significantly higher than clinically-diagnosed ME/CFS. Combine that with how roughly half of those with ME/CFS-like symptoms have an exclusionary medical or psychiatric diagnosis. Combine that with how PEM, the hallmark feature of ME/CFS, is poorly defined, detected, or recorded.

Without a gold-standard diagnostic test, the above is a giant recipe for uncertainty that any particular individual has what we conceptualise and define as ME/CFS, even those claiming to have met the Canadian criteria, NICE criteria, or whatever.

Given how the proponents of brain retraining go on about fear and anxiety as being central, perhaps a significant proportion of them really did have another undiagnosed illness that was being primarily perpertuated by psychological issues all along, which they then generalise to everyone with similar symptoms?

Or perhaps there is a more nuanced possibility. The existence of PEM makes it plausible that people with ME/CFS are vulnerable to psychological stresses, which is obviously going to be a problem for those with psychological issues. Perhaps for them, brain retraining, especially in the earlier stages of illness, removes that prognostic factor before it has a chance to make them worse in the longer term.

But despite all that, I know from personal experience, and reading about others on this forum and elsewhere, addressing psychological factors can help with alleviating the effects of said psychological factors, but they tend not to actually resolve the ME/CFS itself.

Rachel Whitfield: "I was advised to rest – physically, mentally and emotionally. Aggressive rest they called it where you lie in a dark room doing nothing for long periods of time. So I outsourced everything I could and cleared my diary."

I have been coming across brain retraining proponents claim they were told to avoid PEM at all costs or decrease activity as much as possible until they basically became isolated in a dark room by choice (emphasis on the choice part).

Is this really a common thing? Who is telling them to do this? Are they being misled by randoms on the internet who misinterpreted what pacing is really about in practice, or are they exaggerating in order to cast pacing in a bad light, just as Wessely et al did before them?
 
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I have been coming across brain retraining proponents claim they were told to avoid PEM at all costs or decrease activity as much as possible until they basically became isolated in a dark room by choice (emphasis on the choice part). Is this really a thing? Who is telling them to do this? Are they being misled by randoms on the internet who misinterpreted what pacing is really about in practice, or are they exaggerating in order to cast pacing in a bad light, just as Wessely et al did before them?
I suspect this is on a par with the apparent brain retraining meme that all doctors tell people with ME/CFS that they are never going to recover. As far as we can tell this is very far from the reality experienced by members here but it does make a good straw man argument for these valiant brain retraining warriors fighting the cruel system.

These examples of potential misinformation either by doctors or apparently cured ME/CFS patients, illustrates why anecdote is not a good basis for medical treatment/management.

I have no objection to brain retraining as a life style choice or a well being, wellness or recreational activity, and I have no doubt that there are many people who strongly believe it significantly enhances their quality of life, but to sell it as a medical cure for anyone on the basis of current evidence is potentially dangerous, highly unethical and potentially unlawful.
 
Are we in danger of falling into the trap of 'it's a valid treatment because it helps some people'. The next step becomes 'it should be made available in mainstream medicine because it helps some people'. That's the argument we still see for CBT/GET being provided as an option on the NHS - because it 'helps some people'. Im sure we could find quotes from the Royal Colleges when NICE was published in 2021.

But with CBT/GET for ME/CFS, and indeed for more broadly defined 'chronic fatigue', including when also diagnosed with anxiety or depression, as the Oxford definition allows, we know from clinical trials such as PACE, FINE, MAGENTA, FITNET, that CBT/GET doesn't have any objective or long term subjective evidence that it helps anyone any better than adaptive pacing or usual care. And we know from lots of large surveys that CBT/GET causes long term deterioration for some.

We have no grounds to believe any version of brain retraining is different. Some recovery anecdotes, and some harm anecdotes is all we have. And a lot of social media hype.

Please, let's not fall into the trap of speculating about some version of ME/CFS like illness being helped by brain retraining on the basis of online anecdotes.
 
The implication of all this might be that rather than deny that anyone could possibly be cured by brain retraining it would be better to say 'OK, your sort of problem might have responded but what makes you think that most diagnosed ME/CFS is like that?'

Yes, but.

Live and let live would be easier if there was some good evidence that some people benefit and the other people can be protected from harm.

If this sort of thing genuinely worked, I think there would have been trials showing convincing improvements. The various treatments are pretty much the same, whether they have a BPS label or a brain training label. We know the BPS trials don't show benefits, basically for anyone. If the benefits of the brain training were so stunning for a significant group, surely someone would have done a decent study by now, so that the proponents of it could bask in the mainstream recognition. The evidence for an ME/CFS illness that responds to psychological intervention is just so shonky. And, exactly what intervention? What are the active ingredients of the therapy, or will any random collection do?

And, in the absence of a biomarker to sort people, I don't know how we protect the people who don't respond to brain training from harm. With no biomarkers, the pressure is on everyone to do the treatment - because it might work for them. And for some people, especially those with the characteristics that are claimed to predispose to psychogenic symptoms - being female, being young, having mental health issues, having had trauma, and now this latest idea, being neurodivergent - they might never be able to move on from the assumption that brain training is the solution for them. They might just think they aren't good enough to do it right.
 
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