Dr Karl Morten - UK researcher based at Oxford University

I don't like to be constantly critical but I am afraid that to me this looks like a muddle of half-formed and unsubstantiated ideas involving collaborators who seem to have little idea of science. I do not think any formal funding body would fund it. I agree with @InitialConditions that crowdfunding for this sort of level of money is hard to see the justification for.

 

I would prefer to see more specific smaller projects like this one:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/fundraiser-for-dr-prustys-research.13481/#post-240327
pursuing lines of enquiry that have already shown some promise rather than these grandiose long term projects that are based on vague foundations.

 

Like a lot of people I Googled "L-form bacteria" when I first came across the idea (linked to ME). Also, bear in mind that Ron Davis has made comments regarding pathogens and wanting to look at bacteria --- but they are difficult since they could be present owing to sample contamination (from the skin).

Bacterial have recently been shown to cause some forms of Alzheimer's disease; interestingly a GWAS study identified a genetic susceptibility and eventually they figured out a bacteria was the pathogen exploiting that vulnerability.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0228206

 

On the question of funding: is there an organisation comparable to the AHRC that funds doctoral research?

The arts has used AHRC funding to do some important work. For instance, I was involved in a five-year project where a teacher and director used her PhD programme to develop a framework for making theatre with young people with profound and multiple learning disabilities. It changed the field nationwide, and continues to do so. Another colleague is currently exploring the verbatim theatre model she has been working on – in her case to tell the real stories of refugees, but it has much wider potential. The research funding is patched together with money from other sources, e.g. university departments, theatres, and in-kind support, meaning a lot can be achieved on modest grants.

I've no idea how the biomedical sciences are funded or even what questions might be appropriate for doctoral research, but as we have to make the most of every possibility, I thought I'd ask!

 

Wasn't this theory of L-form bacteria found in the blood part of Marshall protocol years ago? How did that work out?

 

Karl's presentation from the CMRC 2020 conference.

Code:

https://youtu.be/-yyusmxizQk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yyusmxizQk

 

I think it would be better if he avoided branching out to other topics like L-form bacteria and stuck to metabolism. In part because this idea of L-form bacteria isn't new and nothing much seems to have come out of it.

If he could identify the blood actors that are altering cell function then that would already be a great achievement, even if it doesn't directly help patients. He also thinks that he's found unknown metabolites that strongly correlate with the illness and that seems worth looking into further.

Sorry to be so blunt but I think his Polish collaborators are seriously underestimating the difficulty of the problem and fooling themselves by conducting weakly or non controlled studies that show some probably only illusory benefit due to the flawed design. I hope I'm not misremembering but their patient characteristics are also atypical as they have more men than women which could suggest problems with patient selection.

 

Fundraising for ME/CFS is pretty low compared to a lot of other illnesses. It's not ideal that lots of newly ill patients get encouraged to put all of their time and money into treatments unlikely to do any good.

I have to admit that I have no idea which of these appeals are worth supporting though.

 

I have reservations about the polish involvement/ size etc. Maybe more information will be given. I have not watched his CMRC video yet. However I’m sure he dislikes crowd funding too and really it’s fortunate for us he’s trying to continue staying in the field.

 

I haven’t looked into this in any detail but with Julia Newton saying she is no longer doing ME research “because funding is so difficult to secure” (from the last APPG meeting), the lack of biomedical researchers in the U.K. is worrying and it seems important to hold on to those interested if possible and feasible.

 

What happens to the donations if it doesn’t take off? Anyone know if he’s going to get support anywhere for this, as a million plus fundraiser without it, will struggle I think.

 

Karl has given me the OK to share this here - I believe that it will be shown on his official Oxford webpages eventually but the current situation probably means the staff who would normally do this are too busy to action it.

The attached PDF gives further detail, the quote below just gives the project summary.

A more pictorial overview


To support this project, donations can be made via https://www.development.ox.ac.uk/mecfs

 

I'm still concerned about their partnership with the FMT clinic. How do you ensure FMT samples people get will not have COVID-19.

 

I'm not thrilled by the cryotherapy and FMT but I suppose we need to rule treatments out as well as in.

 

There is this from a company in the US - https://www.openbiome.org/press-releases/2020/3/16/openbiome-screening-for-covid-19. The Dove Clinic, as far as I can see, doesn't use Open Biome but a company in the UK, https://tml.science/, which hasn't, at least on its website, made any statement yet about COVID-19, but perhaps they will follow the lead of Open Biome?

 

I watched his CMRC presentation but had brain lapses so more gist than details.

he is blessed with energy and seemed very enthusiastic about collaborations and various possibilities. I really would like to see him funded. The polish cohort had CPET testing so even better than uk diagnosis I think.
Are the mea going to give him funding ? But it would still only be £100-200 000 per year. He might have heard about the rituximab and OMF larger scale campaigns reaching his sort of financial targets but i’m not sure that His research would inspire a global campaign or support. I just don’t know, except perhaps with philanthropist backing, how he will raise even half of the target in 5 years without some type of well organised campaign.

 

Merged thread

MEA: Fundraising: University of Oxford – Understanding the causes of ME/CFS | 14 April 2020

https://www.meassociation.org.uk/20...rstanding-the-causes-of-me-cfs-14-april-2020/

Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome is a condition affecting 20 million people worldwide, but it remains a puzzle to both the medical profession and patients.

Complex symptoms make it difficult to diagnose and only 5% of patients make a full recovery.

Research into the causes has been limited due to lack of funding, but the recent identification of high levels of L-form bacteria in the blood of ME/CFS patients suggests a compromised immune system could be a biological cause of the illness.

Dr Karl Morten at the University of Oxford proposes to lead a major research project to investigate this possible cause in detail. It will be the largest project of its kind in Europe, involving three ME/CFS research centres over 4-5 years…

 

New website up and running, https://www.mortengroup.org.uk/

Twitter, https://twitter.com/OxMEDiscovery
Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/mortengroupoxford/