Feeling insecure about romantic relationships

Hoopoe

Hoopoe

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I'm in my 30's with and well enough to leave the house regularly. I've been able to put my life a bit more in order, which is great. I notice that I'm interested in women and a few of them are interested in me. This just hurts. I think it's my looks because personality wise there isn't much.

I don't know how to deal with this. I cannot imagine that any normal person would want to have a relationship with me (living with parents, no higher education, no job skills, few life skills, poor social skills, insecure, chronically ill, and generally different). I'm also so deprived of affection that even a small amount of it feels intense and affects me profoundly. I'm also afraid of being mistreated or exploited because that can happen too easily to people in my situation.

I know there's probably the right person for me out there somewhere but I don't know how to find it. I don't know where to go to create opportunities to find that right person, and my options are also limited because I can't spend too much time outside the house or in stimulating environments.
 
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I sympathise with your difficulty, and hope you can find a way forward.

I hear what you say about feeling you have nothing to offer, but a lot of people are not looking for outward signs of success in their friends or partners. Things like kindness, a sense of humour, willingness to listen, honesty, shared interests, are much more valuable to a genuine friend or partner than what you might or might not have achieved.
 
Hoopoe said:
living with parents, no higher education, no job skills, few life skills, poor social skills, insecure, chronically ill
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Certainly no expert here but I think all of these things don't matter that much for love.

Hoopoe said:
I think it's my looks because personality wise there isn't much.
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I suspect you're underestimating yourself. Based on your posts on S4ME you seem intelligent and kind.

Hoopoe said:
I know there's probably the right person for me out there somewhere but I don't know how to find it.
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Lots of people are in this situation and I suspect there is no other answer than just give it a try and follow your feelings. Would just be upfront about being chronically ill.
 
Thanks for the supportive comments. The whole experience of getting ill and being disbelieved, mistreated and becoming an outcast from society has ruined my confidence and ability to trust other people. While I have positive qualities, when I'm out there with people who I don't know I can trust, I get insecure, defensive, cold. And maybe I do also have some degree of autism.

I'm barely able to have normal conversations. It's easier in a healthcare or business setting when the purpose is to get something done. It's hard when the purpose would be to relax and enjoy the company of other people. I hate it when people try to socialize with me like I'm a normal person and ask what I do for a living.
 
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Also I tend to not feel well in a lot of environments as direct effect of the illness on the body. Fatigability, orthostatic intolerance, fluctuations in brain perfusion due to for example eating, and I suspect intolerance of sensory stimulation. At my level of severity I can tolerate things for some time but then function and well being declines. And that's also why I have had difficulty socializing in the usual ways.
 
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I have a friend who was born with dwarfism. She is tiny and her condition also affects her legs in such a way that although she can walk, she can do so with great difficulty and she is extremely slow. Not someone you can easily walk around with. She is also bisexual, Jewish and a hardcore feminist. We are talking about Hungary here, not really the land of acceptance and she has a whole list of things that make her "different". Yet, she could find someone through online dating, a perfectly ordinary Hungarian guy actually. The last time I remember they were engaged.

I'm not saying everyone finds someone, a lot of people don't (being single is on the rise in general from what I understand), but it is certainly not impossible even if you feel you have a lot of dealbreakers.

As for social skills, I think they get better with practice. I also had pretty lame social skills when I was young, coming from a both physically and emotionally abusive family that was kind of reclusive. As a result, I was the extremely shy awkward bookish girl who was always alone, which also made me the target of bullying at school of course. Double whammy, really not many opportunities to learn how to be a normal person, since I didn't experience many healthy interactions. All I got was negative feedback everywhere in my life, no matter what I did -- so I grew up deeply thinking I was the problem and there was something wrong with me and I will never be normal and never have normal relationships with people. And the only way I could turn it around was practice and a lot of time. And understanding that in the beginning I will feel like a failure but it is normal as it is part of the learning curve. And in the end I became a very extroverted person who could strike up casual conversations with total strangers and was known for knowing everyone and being there at every social event, which was much closer to my actual personality than the shy loner.

Of course, all of this is more difficult if you have chronic disease that limits your energy for social interactions. But these things can get better with practice, very gradually.
 
With the things you write above @Hoopoe I would suggest that there are many people who could write the same (likely with things other than ME/CFS in their backgrounds). I think it's worth exploring and I would imagine a female partner would be more likely to have an innate understanding of and natural empathy for your situation. Also some people only want a bit of a relationship rather than a 100% all-in.

I pre-dated (hah!) dating-by-app but there may be a specific app for people in our position that respects our situation. Perhaps you could find someone local to share some time at your house and watch movies or read books together. It doesn't have to be out on the town.

Your comment about autism may have been off the cuff and not strictly relevant, but if you haven't already do watch the Netflix series "Love on the Spectrum" (the original Australian version). Absolutely heart warming.
 
Hoopoe said:
It's easier in a healthcare or business setting when the purpose is to get something done. It's hard when the purpose would be to relax and enjoy the company of other people.
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I've always made social relationships through doing things, as I can't base conversation on a blank canvas either.

I made some new contacts last month by starting music tuition at a local community group, and then staying on for the session afterwards. The lessons are only half an hour, and the conversation afterwards is easy because it starts with the music and can always default back to it. Half the time we're just listening to people play anyway, so there are plenty of rest breaks.

Last year I joined a newly set up wildlife survey group, and made new contacts through that too.

My motivation for joining both groups was an interest in the subject, but meeting new people is an inevitable part of it. Every friend I've ever had has been a nice side-effect of doing something practical.

I've no expertise in romantic relationships, but a lot seem to result from coming into contact with new social groups. I'm sure you do have a lot to offer, so if there's something that interests you, maybe dip your toes in the water? If you find the right group, it'll help you build confidence.
 
Re. autism. An interesting thing is that people with autism engage in a behaviour that is called masking, which as I understand, is faking being a neurotypical person. Many people with ME/CFS fake being well or hide the full extent of their illness because it's not socially accepted. ME/CFS also makes it more difficult to participate in normal life, and spending a lot of time by oneselves, which favors introversion and a decay or stunted development of social skills. A reduced ability to tolerate sensory stimulation occurs in both conditions. Maybe this explains some similarities between ME/CFS and autism.
 
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Hoopoe said:
What does that involve? Physical activity or other things?
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Trundling about in a wheelchair, counting stuff. It doesn't necessarily involve a huge amount of walking even if you don't use a chair, as survey areas can be quite small for some species. It probably wouldn't be very appealing to anyone who didn't find newts or butterflies or snakes interesting, to be fair!

Hoopoe said:
Re. autism. An interesting thing is that people with autism engage in a behaviour that is called masking, which as I understand, is faking being a neurotypical person.
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True, to the extent that I've no idea what I'd be like if I behaved naturally, as I spent 50 years passing for normal before I was diagnosed.

Hoopoe said:
Many people with ME/CFS fake being well or hide the full extent of their illness because it's not socially accepted.
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I actually struggle to do this, as people can literally watch me run out of energy and grind to a halt. I find it quite funny, as long as I'm not in a situation where I'm at risk.

I don't know why I've experienced almost no non-acceptance, but maybe it's partly connected to a reluctance to talk about it? I usually mutter about faulty batteries and change the subject, because I find the world too full of wonders to want to discuss ME outside of forums. People gradually get to know as much as they need to—I often have to leave things early, for instance, but so do people who have young children or work shifts.
 
The whole 'romance' paradigm is built on insecurity - it involves endless possibilities of failure, embarassment and rejection from the exposure of deeply personal sensitivities to the judgement of others. Romance is biological and social fitness testing for potential breeding partners and/or social allies and it's not supposed to be easy, either for evolutionary or sociological demands. Absent religious or cultural strictures people find various ways of dealing with the insecurity - alcohol and other intoxicants play a major role in bonding in developed societies and absent that crutch things can be a bit tough for most people.

Familiarity with a potential partner eases insecurity which is one of the reasons that 'work' is a major source of 'introductions', task based out of work activities (hobbies etc) can be an effective substitute. The internet has provided major cut throughs for the effort of excluding uncomfortable encounters and the various contact sites/apps allow the setting of many parameters - there's the meat market sites/apps for those who want sex based relationships, and there's a whole raft of partner by type sites; disability dating has been on the net for a couple of decades - just do a search for relevant country/region.

But in the end it is going to take risk and an acceptance that not every interaction with a seemigly attractive person is going to end well - that's just how it is. I don't know how I would have approached it in my 30s - I only had to deal with singleness and ME/CFS when a lot older and by then I was frankly too emotionally lazy to put any effort into revisiting that part of my life. If I were in my 30s now and mild/moderate ME/CFS I'd try to keep some social presence via political or environmental activism allowing some possibility of a meaningful encounter in those contexts, and maybe also try a range of dating apps in the hope of sustaining my inner lothario.
 
Hoopoe said:
I cannot imagine that any normal person would want to have a relationship with me (living with parents, no higher education, no job skills, few life skills, poor social skills, insecure, chronically ill, and generally different).
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All of these are the same for me (except the higher education/job experience which I was able to experience 3-4 years of). I’m in a relationship which pre-dated my illness and so my situation is slightly different, but my illness is very severe, and still my boyfriend chose to still stay with me even when I lost my health completely. There’s a few things he has said to me which I thought might help you to hear.

When I’ve gotten sad that I cannot cook, clean, or do things around the house and that I feel useless. He has said to me - “why would you want to do those? They’re not fun!! I don’t want you to do any of those. I just want you to rest”.

When I feel sad about some aspects of my health (for example, not being able to have children), he said: “It doesn’t matter to me whether I have children. What’s important to me is being with you. That is what I want”. Then when I told him how I got sad that my friend was having her second child and I felt so useless / felt like I was less then other women: “But you’ve got a second kitty cat! And cats are better than children. They stay cute forever!” (his attempt to cheer me up and make me feel better, which worked).

When I felt sad that I don’t work: “who wants to do that?! It’s more fun to stay at home and rest and do things that make you happy. Watch Disney, eat nice food, and play with your cats”.

About living with parents. Soon we plan to move to a 3 bed home, and my boyfriend should have a room there of his own. So he is ok with living with my mum too. Although he may want to have his own space elsewhere too, I don’t know.

I can do very little day-to-day. At the most we can cuddle, or sometimes if we are lucky then we can watch TV on my phone together, on my bed. Occasionally I come and sit in my reclining chair in the living room while he works on his laptop. Still, he loves coming to see me and if there’s a weekend where I say I’m not feeling well enough, he gets upset and is desperate to come to see me, which I often don’t understand!. I’ve asked him why he loves me, and he’s said things like: “you are the most beautiful girl I’ve ever met. You are sweet, and you are kind”. So the worries you mentioned earlier, they didn’t factor into his decision to love me.

Im sharing this to explain that sometimes love happens even when lots of things feel against you (like chronic illness, living with parents, not being able to do much, not feeling like you have much “going for you”). And I think that there are LOTS of different types of people out there. Some may be judgemental and not very nice or understanding of chronic illness. Some may be lovely and some will match who you are as a person, and fall in love with you too.

One thing that maybe helped us specifically was that my boyfriend isn’t really an adventurous/outgoing sort of person. He’s very much an introvert. So once I fell ill, my boyfriend didn’t feel like I was holding him back all the time - because he prefers to be at home, cuddling up, watching TV most of the time anyway. I actually need to push him to go out with friends because I don’t want him to lose touch with them! He says to me “I just want the simple life”. Maybe it is easier if the partner is someone who is more like that. Just my experience.

Of course I’m not saying we don’t argue and have big difficulties, we definitely do. It’s not all perfect and rosy all the time. But despite that, it works and we love each other. :)
 
Like @Kitty I find relationships through doing stuff, although at the moment I am lucky enough to be able to work so my other activities are limited and I don't feel like I have energy to build a relationship that is not also very much online-based. I met my now boyfriend at a writing school I had to drop out of due to beginning to develop ME, but we kept in touch afterwards through email.

On the stimulating environments and opportunities: Before I and my boyfriend became a couple, our contact was mostly emails. His depression would sometimes make it so it could take weeks of him not being able to answer. He also lived with his mother, just to show living with parents doesn't need to be negative for the person you are talking to. If we met physically we could go for walks and watch movies/TV series, but maybe it was only half a movie or episode, or we went for a short walk (like five-fifteen minutes in total, maybe found a bench to chat). His depression is a different form of energy depletion than my ME, but we've found activities both of us can be able to do and enjoy and give each other space when needed. I enjoyed his company, and he mine, despite not always being able to do much (this goes for both of us).
 
Hoopoe said:
I'm in my 30's with and well enough to leave the house regularly. I've been able to put my life a bit more in order, which is great. I notice that I'm interested in women and a few of them are interested in me. This just hurts. I think it's my looks because personality wise there isn't much.

I don't know how to deal with this. I cannot imagine that any normal person would want to have a relationship with me (living with parents, no higher education, no job skills, few life skills, poor social skills, insecure, chronically ill, and generally different). I'm also so deprived of affection that even a small amount of it feels intense and affects me profoundly. I'm also afraid of being mistreated or exploited because that can happen too easily to people in my situation.

I know there's probably the right person for me out there somewhere but I don't know how to find it. I don't know where to go to create opportunities to find that right person, and my options are also limited because I can't spend too much time outside the house or in stimulating environments.
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Okay so, I thought I'd never be able to have a relationship while I'm sick (and I can barely leave the house), but I'm now 8 days off from my 6 month anniversary with my girlfriend.

We met online through the Doctor Who fan community. If there is something you're interested in, you could take part in an online community about it, and you may naturally find a woman whom you gel with. Also, people who frequent online communities tend are often people who are not what you would call a "normal person" (based on your definition above).

You also mentioned having poor social skills and feeling generally "different". Might you perhaps be autistic? (And again, people who frequent online interest communities are more likely to be autistic.)

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And none of this bothers me. I'm in love with her, and she's in love with me, even though I have severe chronic fatigue.

[Edited for privacy]

We haven't met up in person yet as I haven't been well enough, but she doesn't live far away at all.

This reminds me. I never actually told s4me about this. I should make my own post about that.
 
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livinglighter said:
There might be increased understanding within relationships where both people have chronic conditions or disability.
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Yes, this is my experience.
Hoopoe said:
Re. autism. An interesting thing is that people with autism engage in a behaviour that is called masking, which as I understand, is faking being a neurotypical person. Many people with ME/CFS fake being well or hide the full extent of their illness because it's not socially accepted. ME/CFS also makes it more difficult to participate in normal life, and spending a lot of time by oneselves, which favors introversion and a decay or stunted development of social skills. A reduced ability to tolerate sensory stimulation occurs in both conditions. Maybe this explains some similarities between ME/CFS and autism.
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Maybe. Personally I've always been autistic. And I feel that non-autistic people with ME behave/talk quite differently to autistic people with ME.

I have certainly found that my autism sensory issues have gotten FAR FAR WORSE since getting ME. (On the plus side, at least I can wear pyjamas all day, I don't have to deal with all the sensory issues that proper clothes used to cause me.)

I think it is easier to cope with ME/CFS if you were already an introvert beforehand.
 
Sarah94 said:
Okay so, I thought I'd never be able to have a relationship while I'm sick (and I can barely leave the house), but I'm now 8 days off from my 6 month anniversary with my girlfriend.

We met online through the Doctor Who fan community. If there is something you're interested in, you could take part in an online community about it, and you may naturally find a woman whom you gel with. Also, people who frequent online communities tend are often people who are not what you would call a "normal person" (based on your definition above).

You also mentioned having poor social skills and feeling generally "different". Might you perhaps be autistic? (And again, people who frequent online interest communities are more likely to be autistic.)
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Hey @Hoopoe, do you want to maybe screenshot this post for yourself? Then I can delete some private details.
 
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