Improving Access to Psychological Therapies (IAPT) - The Need for Radical Reform, 2018, Scott

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Londinium, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. Action for M.E.

    Action for M.E. Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hi Sarah - I'm happy to address the questions that you've posted but I'm afraid I have run out of time before I go on annual leave.

    While my team doesn't have capacity to regularly monitor and post in S4ME in my absence, they would be happy to respond to questions by email or phone.

    I will be back in the office w/c Mon 30 July and hope to return to the forum then.
     
  2. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This made me wonder: Does the UK government try to establish what we have in Germany, namely having ME/CFS diagnosed (and re-diagnosed) as F45.0 or F48.0?
     
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  3. Sarah

    Sarah Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The F45.0 coding is for patients referred for MUS for IAPT national reporting purposes in this instance.

    "For those in integrated care with a medically unexplained symptom (MUS), ‘Somatization Disorder’ (ICD-1016 code F45.0) should be selected as the primary problem to identify their specific condition. The relevant MUS-specific outcome measure can then be used for the calculation of recovery (provided paired scores are available)."

    https://files.digital.nhs.uk/publication/7/7/iapt-int-rep-dec-2017-exec-sum.pdf
     
  4. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    There it is. Exposed for all to see on the formal government record.

    And I thought it was medically unexplained symptoms (plural)?
     
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  5. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    From that, it looks like (although it's not entirely clear) their 'recovery' measure relevant to CFS is just a Chalder Fatigue score of 18 (the same cut-off PACE used for their post-hoc criteria, which overlapped with their entry criteria. Wonder what their justification for that is.

    Diagram from Wilshire & colleague's recovery paper to illustrate how this overlaps with the trial's entry criteria:

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So, what we're actually seeing is that government gives a damn about the PACE trial that was shown to be unscientific and to have no effect, because politically it is desired to put people into MUS. And in politics it holds "What doesn't fit is made to fit". What we see is, for politics, science is irrevelant. Maybe because for most people science is irrelevant and so there is no one who gets loud.

    But still, I think it is crucial to show what realitiy is, and this includes science.

    So we also need to start with a new direction.

    We need more awareness about the on-goings.
     
  7. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    I am appalled that the Chalder questionnaire is being used to assess disability in ME/CFS patients. It is utter nonsense.

    I wonder whether the placing of 'MUS' in the IAPT program is not so much a top down designed government policy as a result of some very determined people empire building and selling their BPS nonsense to clinical commissioning groups on the basis of saving money. If you look at their propaganda directed at CCG's it's all about reducing GP visits by frequent attenders and thereby saving money. PACE is one of the key bits of 'evidence' underpinning IAPT for MUS, which inevitably means they have to insist ME/CFS belongs in that category. If we manage to kill off PACE, it will become clearer that their edifice is built on sand.
     
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  8. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think both come together. It's not new in history, it's common practice.

    I wrote in another thread about a German psychiatrist who obviously lacks certain skills (I want to be nice) but is determined to spread the word, and authorities are quite thankful, because now they can save money AND say "scientists say so". WE know people of that kind aren't scientists, and actually I sometimes think authorities, governments etc know so, too. But such people now get their forum.

    So we need to make public what these people are - no experts. Sadly, we can't attack governments directly at this point because what we say will be called "conspiracy theory".

    This is all so frustrating.
     
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  9. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Does anyone know if the Journal of Health Psychology August issue is a special issue re IAPT or just a feature article?
     
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  10. Sarah

    Sarah Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It looks that way as far as the CFQ goes. I'm aware of this from the IAPT-LTC Full Implementation Guidance:

    Both Chalder Fatigue Questionnaire and PHQ-9 are bolded.

    "Notes: Recovery, reliable improvement and reliable deterioration rate calculations should be based on the pair measures highlighted in bold. When the measure in bold in the middle column is missing, the recovery calculation is based on the combination of PHQ-9 and GAD-7, if this is different."

    Also, from the IAPT Manual:

    The measure in the third column is the Chalder Fatigue Questionnaire

    "Recovery, reliable improvement and reliable deterioration rate calculations should be based on the pair of measures highlighted in bold. When the measure in bold in the third column is missing, the recovery calculation is based on the combination of PHQ-9 and GAD7, if this is different."

    Also:

    " 6.2.2 IAPT-LTC and MUS outcome measures
    To support the implementation of The Five Year Forward View for Mental Health, LTC and/or MUS data from participating IAPT providers will be collected before widespread rollout to all IAPT providers."


    Roll-out is being implemented, so I'm not sure what this means for data collection. Although in practical terms it probably doesn't make much difference from an implementation perspective, I think Fibromyalgia is reported as a LTC, although it depends on the the IAPT document you read as to whether Fibromyalgia is described as MUS or a LTC.

    From the MUS Positive Practice Guide:

    "Membership of the IAPT Medically Unexplained Symptoms Evaluation Task and
    Finish Group (2012-13):

    Screenshot_20180711-095618.jpg Screenshot_20180711-095624.jpg

    I seem to recall it will be a dedicated section.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
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  11. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that is what is known as a confluence of mutually beneficial interests. The psychs want power and prestige, and the pollies and bean counters want plausible deniability.
     
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  12. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think this is the driving force. Which is why therapist-delivered treatments need to be audited and licensed in the way drugs are and those marketing them treated like pharmaceutical companies.
     
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  13. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    yes these treatment packages are "products" just as much as a course of antibiotics and should indeed be subject to monitoring in the same way.
     
  14. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I have not looked at the status of IAPT " deliverers" other than one link which was a private company set up by psychs, physios/ OTs and business managers. Nice pension scheme for former NHS personnel .
     
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  15. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    yes I had it from the largest one which Im surprised to find is actually a non profit because it seemed very corporate to me and didnt have charity ethos https://www.insighthealthcare.org/about-us/ unfortunately a lot of education and health businesses appear to benefit from charitable status they have these contracts and run like busineses and then get donations as well

    but to me this was, as Ive said often, a corporate machine churning out CBT sausages
     
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  16. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Kings BPS Mafia strike again
     
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  17. Sarah

    Sarah Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Insight Healthcare has a dedicated "Chronic fatigue" page:
     
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  18. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interesting how they talk about 'chronic fatigue', but link to pages on CFS/ME.
     
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  19. large donner

    large donner Guest

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    How can there be a symptom of a symptom?
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2018
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  20. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    we need to do a @Webdog on this and on the Patient.co.uk page it links to it does mention issues have been raised about CBT/GET but in a skimming over kind of way - no mention of PEM, fatiguability as far as I can see

    maybe a good project for the autumn
     
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