L-carnitine, tryptophane and d-ribose

[Marky]

These are all supplements I have considered during the years.. But ive forgotten a lot about what ive read about them haha..

I know Fluge & Mella experimented with L-Carnitine, but I think some of the patients had side effects if remember correctly..

Has anyone here tried any of these, either alone or in combination with something else, and felt they had a prolonged heightening in function level that was not due to "fake" energy?

I know there are no cures here, just looking for something that can give a small boost

Have a nice day

 

[Dolphin]

Yes, I believe 3000 mg of L-carnitine improved my overall functioning level quite a bit. From maybe 12% to 20%. I tried it after reading about a US study in the 1990s that found that this dosage was beneficial in comparison to amantadine.

Not a perfect study but it's interesting how another medication taken orally, which might have more status than L-carnitine didn't work at all, in comparison.

It's easy to adjust to a higher level of functioning and still be unhappy, but I particularly noticed the difference when I stopped taking it.

No idea whether it is "false" energy or not, but I still sleep fine. It's not like caffeine or a stimulant for me.

Best of luck

Neuropsychobiology. 1997;35(1):16-23.
Amantadine and L-carnitine treatment of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.
Plioplys AV1, Plioplys S.
Author information
Abstract

Carnitine is essential for mitochondrial energy production. Disturbance in mitochondrial function may contribute to or cause the fatigue seen in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) patients. Previous investigations have reported decreased carnitine levels in CFS. Orally administered L-carnitine is an effective medicine in treating the fatigue seen in a number of chronic neurologic diseases. Amantadine is one of the most effective medicines for treating the fatigue seen in multiple sclerosis patients. Isolated reports suggest that it may also be effective in treating CFS patients. Formal investigations of the use of L-carnitine and amantadine for treating CFS have not been previously reported. We treated 30 CFS patients in a crossover design comparing L-carnitine and amantadine. Each medicine was given for 2 months, with a 2-week washout period between medicines. L-Carnitine or amantadine was alternately assigned as fist medicine. Amantadine was poorly tolerated by the CFS patients. Only 15 were able to complete 8 weeks of treatment, the others had to stop taking the medicine due to side effects. In those individuals who completed 8 weeks of treatment, there was no statistically significant difference in any of the clinical parameters that were followed. However, with L-carnitine we found statistically significant clinical improvement in 12 of the 18 studied parameters after 8 weeks of treatment. None of the clinical parameters showed any deterioration. The greatest improvement took place between 4 and 8 weeks of L-carnitine treatment. Only 1 patient was unable to complete 8 weeks of treatment due to diarrhea. L-Carnitine is a safe and very well tolerated medicine which improves the clinical status of CFS patients. In this study we also analyzed clinical and laboratory correlates of CFS symptomatology and improvement parameters.

PMID:
9018019
DOI:
10.1159/000119325

[Indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Marky]

Yes, I believe 3000 mg of l-carnitine improved my overall functioning level quite a bit. From maybe 12% to 20%. I tried it after reading about a US study in the 1990s that found that this dosage was beneficial in comparison to amantadine.

Not a perfect study but it's interesting how another medication taken orally, which might have more status than l-carnitine didn't work at all, in comparison.

It's easy to adjust to a higher level of functioning and still be unhappy, but I particularly noticed the difference when I stopped taking it.

No idea whether it is "false" energy or not, but I still sleep fine. It's not like caffeine or a stimulant for me.

Best of luck

8 % is a lot! Thanks for sharing the study. Ill give this a shot Did u take Levocarnitine?

 

[Dolphin]

8 % is a lot! Thanks for sharing the study. Ill give this a shot Did u take Levocarnitine?

I have just taken different types of L-carnitine available in supplement shops over the years, not Levocarnitine.

 

[SallyC]

These are all supplements I have considered during the years.. But ive forgotten a lot about what ive read about them haha..

I know Fluge & Mella experimented with L-Carnitine, but I think some of the patients had side effects if remember correctly..

Has anyone here tried any of these, either alone or in combination with something else, and felt they had a prolonged heightening in function level that was not due to "fake" energy?

I know there are no cures here, just looking for something that can give a small boost

Have a nice day

I tried L-Carnitine and didn't notice any difference.

 

[Dolphin]

By the way, 3000 mg of L-carnitine can be quite expensive to take, particularly if you don't use cheap sources (there are huge variations in prices, and it was previously difficult to source it relatively cheaply outside the US). I don't consider trials of much lower doses, which many people probably use, to be true trials.

 

[AliceLily]

I tried d ribose for a year or two but felt it was a fake energy and I would just use up the extra energy I felt and I think it sped up other negative pathway problems, not sure but it didn't feel right to continue with it.

One thing with the ribose that I found very surprising though was how it helped with the pain I had in my hands from trivial overuse. Within a hour of taking the ribose the pain in my hands eased remarkably, still, I don't feel comfortable enough to take up the ribose again and I am not getting the pain in my hands as much now anyway.

Never tried L-cartinine or tryptophane.

 

[Wits_End]

L-carnitine can cause stomach upsets, I believe?

 

[pteropus]

I tried d ribose for a year or two but felt it was a fake energy and I would just use up the extra energy I felt and I think it sped up other negative pathway problems, not sure but it didn't feel right to continue with it.

One thing with the ribose that I found very surprising though was how it helped with the pain I had in my hands from trivial overuse. Within a hour of taking the ribose the pain in my hands eased remarkably, still, I don't feel comfortable enough to take up the ribose again and I am not getting the pain in my hands as much now anyway.

Never tried L-cartinine or tryptophane.

d-ribose was useful when i was recovering from GET damage. it also reduced pain in my hands toes etc. i was careful to stay within my energy limits.

i use tryptophan (not tryptophane) to reduce effects & duration of PEM, including pain weepiness brain-fail. small doses, short duration.

 

[AliceLily]

d-ribose was useful when i was recovering from GET damage. it also reduced pain in my hands toes etc. i was careful to stay within my energy limits.

@pteropus You just reminded me how useful d ribose was at the time I started (how could I forget) I was in a very bad place, a major deterioration 2012 and ribose gave me the 'pick up' I needed - just that bit that made things more bearable. It's really interesting to me that you also had the same experience with ribose reducing the pain in your hands and toes. I only expected more energy from ribose not the added bonus easing pain in the hands. How long have you been taking ribose now and what dose if you don't mind my asking?

I'm so pleased it helped you too. I know what you mean.

i use tryptophan (not tryptophane) to reduce effects & duration of PEM, including pain weepiness brain-fail. small doses, short duration.

You sound similar to me. Have you ever described your ME in a post on the forum? I would be interested to read how things have been for you.

 

[Philipp]

For what it is worth, L-Carnitine Fumarate is probably my one Supplement for the lonely island. 500mg+ on an empty stomach, makes the difference between being able to read a bit and not at all within half an hour or so on average days. Higher doses tend to come with unnervingly severe stomach upset though. Other forms were not as beneficial for me as far as I have tried them back in the day, but straight free L-Carnitine found in some sports drinks at 2-3grams was roughly as good as the LCF, just more expensive.

D-Ribose after exertion (especially overding it physically, 3-5grams on an empty stomach) seems to buffer vs more severe PEM as well. I don't think it does terribly much for me taken regularly, but it is pretty hard to say since it just restores normal functioning that you only would notice when it isn't there.

[...]was beneficial in comparison to amantadine.

A bit off-topic, but what would the reasoning behind using amantadine be? Looking at the wikipedia page it seems like a weird does-a-bit-of-everything-drug that will not be able to understand for the forseeable future

 

[Hoopoe]

If carnitine works for you like it does for me, you'll probably do more on that day than you normally would.

It also has some mild side effects that limit its usefulness.

 

[Midnattsol]

Besides d-ribose, why not increase protein intake from meat and dairy? I feel like I'm missing something when people talk about certain supplements. For carnitine I guess the main goal is to increase beta oxidation of fats for energy? With tryptophan I can think of many things it can do in the body and I'm not sure what the goal to use it is. Carbohydrates can change how the body uses tryptophan in some cases, maybe that's another way to go?

 

[Dolphin]

Besides d-ribose, why not increase protein intake from meat and dairy? I feel like I'm missing something when people talk about certain supplements. For carnitine I guess the main goal is to increase beta oxidation of fats for energy? With tryptophan I can think of many things it can do in the body and I'm not sure what the goal to use it is. Carbohydrates can change how the body uses tryptophan in some cases, maybe that's another way to go?

I don’t understand the biochemistry but one pretty much won’t be able to get 3000mg per day of L-Carnitine from food:
https://amino-acid.org/l-carnitine/

 

[Marky]

Besides d-ribose, why not increase protein intake from meat and dairy? I feel like I'm missing something when people talk about certain supplements. For carnitine I guess the main goal is to increase beta oxidation of fats for energy? With tryptophan I can think of many things it can do in the body and I'm not sure what the goal to use it is. Carbohydrates can change how the body uses tryptophan in some cases, maybe that's another way to go?

I think when I considered it I was just loosely wondering if it could lower brain fog. No good scientific reason hah

 

[Marky]

For what it is worth, L-Carnitine Fumarate is probably my one Supplement for the lonely island. 500mg+ on an empty stomach, makes the difference between being able to read a bit and not at all within half an hour or so on average days. Higher doses tend to come with unnervingly severe stomach upset though. Other forms were not as beneficial for me as far as I have tried them back in the day, but straight free L-Carnitine found in some sports drinks at 2-3grams was roughly as good as the LCF, just more expensive.

D-Ribose after exertion (especially overding it physically, 3-5grams on an empty stomach) seems to buffer vs more severe PEM as well. I don't think it does terribly much for me taken regularly, but it is pretty hard to say since it just restores normal functioning that you only would notice when it isn't there.



A bit off-topic, but what would the reasoning behind using amantadine be? Looking at the wikipedia page it seems like a weird does-a-bit-of-everything-drug that will not be able to understand for the forseeable future

Cool Did u try them together?

 

[Dolphin]

This study found acetyl l-carnitine, which can also be bought a lot of supplement shops, was better for cognitive functioning:

sychosom Med. 2004 Mar-Apr;66(2):276-82.
Exploratory open label, randomized study of acetyl- and propionylcarnitine in chronic fatigue syndrome.
Vermeulen RC1, Scholte HR.
Author information

Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
We compared the effects of acetylcarnitine, propionylcarnitine and both compounds on the symptoms of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS).

METHODS:
In an open, randomized fashion we compared 2 g/d acetyl-L-carnitine, 2 g/d propionyl-L-carnitine, and its combination in 3 groups of 30 CFS patients during 24 weeks. Effects were rated by clinical global impression of change. Secondary endpoints were the Multidimensional Fatigue Inventory, McGill Pain Questionnaire, and the Stroop attention concentration test. Scores were assessed 8 weeks before treatment; at randomization; after 8, 16, and 24 weeks of treatment; and 2 weeks later.

RESULTS:
Clinical global impression of change after treatment showed considerable improvement in 59% of the patients in the acetylcarnitine group and 63% in the propionylcarnitine group, but less in the acetylcarnitine plus propionylcarnitine group (37%). Acetylcarnitine significantly improved mental fatigue (p =.015) and propionylcarnitine improved general fatigue (p =.004). Attention concentration improved in all groups, whereas pain complaints did not decrease in any group. Two weeks after treatment, worsening of fatigue was experienced by 52%, 50%, and 37% in the acetylcarnitine, propionylcarnitine, and combined group, respectively. In the acetylcarnitine group, but not in the other groups, the changes in plasma carnitine levels correlated with clinical improvement.

CONCLUSIONS:
Acetylcarnitine and propionylcarnitine showed beneficial effect on fatigue and attention concentration. Less improvement was found by the combined treatment. Acetylcarnitine had main effect on mental fatigue and propionylcarnitine on general fatigue.

PMID:
15039515
DOI:
10.1097/01.psy.0000116249.60477.e9
[Indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[Legend]

I have tried L-Carnitine for some time. I haven't had much effect, but I maybe spotted a little more energy. My observation is that this energy is false, and gots PEM after using this energy.
That being said, maybe my dosage was too low. 500mg. As I am sensitive to meds and drugs, I have to be careful with these things.

 

[stuck]

I'm not sure about all the chemistry.

This illness requires an inordinate understanding of all the things that can go wrong in energy production, then try to self-reverse-engineer for all the varied broken things. By itself that is terribly exhausting.

Understanding the Krebs cycle and how our systems seem to not follow the normal energy delivery routes, I have desperately tried many alternative metabolic supplements. Still a guinea pig, I have not confirmed the right combinations to know for sure if something helps because it does help or if I'm having a good or bad day.

To add to that, there is the immune booster issues with needing immunity but having bad reactions to some supplements. Then there is the need to compensate for the excessive supplementing with the antioxidants and not really knowing what is truly helping.

But, my deep fear of PEM & crashes has me pushing to verify what does work.

I do take a supplement called NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine) 1,000 mg, while the Wiki on it sounds crazy, it is supposed to support the gluthiathone production cycle and I know for sure it helps me, I've run out and know the difference. But, I don't have a confirmation on the maker or composition - I know the 1000 mg tablet works fast when I take it with D-ribose. Not sure if the capsules are just slower release or what yet.

And, have not tried higher dosed L-Carnitine (I take a liver refresh supplement that has some (~50) in it, but has too many things in it to know what in it is making the definite improvement when I take it!). I have tried another nootropic Bacopa (Brahmi) that seems to give noticeable improvement in some functioning - helps with stress and with sitting up for me.

I also take an Essential Amino acid complex trying to combat the muscle losses (in addition to a diet with eggs, generally), but it doesn't seem to have L-Carnitine in the ingredients, it's essential aminos the ones we cannot make ourselves (again though, in our broken states not sure what we DO make ourselves anymore!).

Have not used the tryptophan directly. Reminds me of the fun sleepy feeling of Thanksgivings-past and I use melatonin for the sleep. Maybe should try since open to trying anything that might help. If there are things that upset my stomach, just adding another tsp of baking soda does the trick. I had to get past the aackk factor in taking it but now I'm adjusted and happy to be off any other GERD medicines I used to have to take.

 

[Marky]

I have tried L-Carnitine for some time. I haven't had much effect, but I maybe spotted a little more energy. My observation is that this energy is false, and gots PEM after using this energy.
That being said, maybe my dosage was too low. 500mg. As I am sensitive to meds and drugs, I have to be careful with these things.

Yea i suspect its really hard to judge if you dont have an obvious effect. Like you might be doing a little more than usual because you assume you get more energy, and then you get PEM.. Stuff like that. So it can be hard to know if the supplement caused u to crash, or if u just overexerted without actually having an effect in the first place