Lightning Process - discussion thread

A thread about the article has been made, so deleted my post and moved it there. Very frustrating if this BS-method is allowed to emerge again in UK. I thought UK had managed to leave it more or less behind.

Anyway, for discussions about the article:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/the-m...rt-of-the-sussex-me-society.5852/#post-106371

 

While watching the first video, I thought that the narrator was using a deliberately hypnotic tone, so it wasn't surprising to hear Phil say in the second video that he had trained as a hypnotist.

If that's the case, I personally think that's not cool. Reminds me of subliminal advertising.

 

It must be an effective video. I mean, all through it, the one thought that kept going through my mind was "I feel physically ill."

 

Merged thread

The Lightning Process--what's it about? Discussing the theory & science

There has been some ongoing discussion of the LP on other threads as it seems that this group would like to continue to try and validate as scientifically sound by continuing research efforts.

In this thread I have compiled some information regarding the LP with citations to understand what the LP is from their own words.

I also think that if anyone is up to the challenge another complementary thread could be created that explains and discusses the science (such as it might be) behind the HPA axis theory of illness. I cannot as I don't have anything to contribute there.

 

I was scanning Phil Parker's website and a pattern emerged that I'd like to comment on.
PP and others he's gathered to the fold have been continuously doing 'research' into illness and the efficacy of the LP for a number of years (about a decade) for poorly treated illnesses. As of 2018, there have been 12 trials of the LP.

https://lightningprocess.com/research/

Not all of which is research. Includes survey polls including from the ME Assoc. Also, the SMILE trial is included as validating research. For problems with the SMILE trial read here
here
The LP currently explicitly states as regards ME, that it is an ‘physiological’ illness.

https://jep.ro/images/pdf/cuprins_reviste/82_art_2__v.pdf

It’s not clear how to interpret this as all illness is physiological but perhaps this is a statement meant to assure those with ME that it is not perceived as ‘all in the head’.

Some of the supporting research (from 2012) however is dated as it suggests:

https://sci-hub.im/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.2044-8287.2012.02093.x

None of this addresses what they think is perpetuating what they perceive to be the ongoing reasons for continued ill health.

 

The explanation for what is perpetuating symptoms is:

https://jep.ro/images/pdf/cuprins_reviste/82_art_2__v.pdf

The core hypothesis of the curative nature of the LP is:

https://jep.ro/images/pdf/cuprins_reviste/82_art_2__v.pdf

It’s not clear what the LP practitioners think is the reason why some people who get sick also get stuck in an ‘aberrant ongoing response’. Is it genes, bad luck, personality? Whatever the reason for the continued aberrant response of the body this model (HPA axis) has a solution in the LP .

https://lightningprocess.com/how-does-the-lightning-process-work/

 

The LP is an evolving entity. There is the content of the treatment (what the clients are told about the LP and what it does/how it works) and also the delivery system (how the coaches deliver the information). With the LP both are seen as important to the effectiveness of the treatment.

In the past, the LP, because it is proprietary treatment, was veiled in a lot of secrecy. Clients were required to not share their experience. This aspect of the delivery of the LP (2012) was seen as unhelpful:

Less helpful aspects were the intensity and short duration of the treatment with little follow-up, the secrecy surrounding it, and feelings of being blamed if the treatment did not work.

https://sci-hub.im/https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.2044-8287.2012.02093.x

It’s still unclear (at least I couldn’t find any info) on what the content is of the LP. What is know is that according to Phil Parker the LP treatment:

https://lightningprocess.com/

 

The health issues that the LP is meant to treat are:

https://lightningprocess.com/is-it-suitable-for-me/

It is then suggested that you contact a coach to discuss if the LP will help you. Although you can come to the LP without ‘checking’ to see if it will benefit you suggesting a chat first with a coach to see if LP is right for you would constitute a screening process.

 

The core hypothesis of the curative nature of the LP is:

https://jep.ro/images/pdf/cuprins_reviste/82_art_2__v.pdf

 

At last, apologies if anything here is unclear or seems out of order.
This was rather ambitious for me, although I think as mentioned more can be said about the HPA axis.

I hope that this information might prove useful somehow.

 

Note that if there is any general agreement it was not shared by Edwards et al 2016 or expressed by them (at least not as far as I can remember). I thought we had said that nobody knows but brain seems to be involved and maybe immune system - no more.

 

Really all this says is that:

although the symptoms are precipitated by what they are precipitated by they go on because they do not get better

Deep stuff!

 

I'm conflicted about this thread. It feels wrong to take LP too seriously. We might as well discuss how credible the emails from a certain nigerian prince are.

 

why waste your valuable energy on this con merchant . the lightning process is just the marketing of n p l surprising the people behind neuro linguistic programming have not pursued him for ripping them off . once the psyche lot have created controversy about a poorly researched disease it became open season for parasites to rip of the gullible and desperate patient groups .

 

If the Nigerian Princes' were being taken seriously by others with the power to disseminate the NP nonsense then I think that people might feel the need to take what the NP's are saying, if not seriously then at least paying some attention to what they say in order to know how to refute it / expose it as not something believable.

 

Yes, I would have liked to go back and have a look at all of the original papers that were cited as I think that might be useful-- it's also a little beyond my capacities to do this-- at least in a timely way.

 

And that's what it seems to me after learning to think in a more probing way with regards to sciency statements. Lots of science words string together do not necessarily add up to a statement of science fact.

While I know nothing on the subject I think science has sorted why when we put our hand on a hot pot we remove our hand in a reflexive manner. But I suspect that the HPA axis explanation for complex illness is quite superficial.

Although I don't think I mentioned it in above posts when reading PP used language that suggested things were 'complex' -- not just the illness but the LP solution as well. Multifactorial was a word used. I think this kind of language is supposed to reassure the reader that if these things apply how can it not be science?

 

What do you mean?!

https://londonlovesbusiness.com/dealing-with-workplace-burnout-the-telltale-signs-and-prevention/

Parker has clearly informed us that he is an internationally renowned health visionary and humanitarian. More importantly, 1999 was 18 years ago in 2017. 18 years!

 

Isn't the problem with discussing LP the fact that nothing is officially revealed about the 'process', so it's impossible to scrutinise? Even in 'research' studies where it is used, there is no description of what happens - which obviously makes it impossible to independently replicate.