Hypothesis Long Vax is delayed onset Long COVID, 2025, Bunker

[forestglip]

Long Vax is delayed onset Long COVID

Thomas Bunker

[Line breaks added]

Highlights
• Long Vax or PCVS is a large constellation of chronic patient-reported symptoms that closely align with those of Long COVID.
• SARS-CoV-2 actively suppresses pathogen sensing pathways within infected cells.
• With growing evidence for viral persistence, both Long Vax and Long COVID may be the same condition with the root cause.
• This hypothesis has implications for research, clinical trials, and treatment of Long COVID and Long Vax.

Abstract
Long COVID is a common chronic health condition that impairs daily functioning and social connection. It affects multiple organs and is marked by fatigue, post-exertional malaise, cognitive impairment, and many autonomic dysfunctions.

Post COVID-19 Vaccination Syndrome (PCVS), Post Acute Covid Vaccination Syndrome (PACVS), or simply ‘Long Vax’ is a large set of similar symptoms that first manifest hours, days or weeks following a COVID-19 vaccination. Perhaps because of the pandemic’s public health imperative to vaccinate populations and prevent acute COVID-19 deaths, the Long Vax phenomenon has been slow to be acknowledged and to the frustrated patient community post-vaccine issues seem like a taboo medical topic.

Meanwhile, evidence is accumulating that low-level persistence of SARS-CoV-2 virus in a variety of cell types and tissues may be the root cause of Long COVID symptoms.

We propose that based on the similarity of patient-reported symptoms, symptom prevalence, and patient demographics that Long COVID and Long Vax are the same medical condition. Furthermore, we propose that both have the same underlying pathobiology; viral persistence of SARS-CoV-2. This hypothesis implies that the same treatments that help Long COVID patients will also help Long Vax patients.

It is important that Long Vax patients be identified in Long COVID cohorts and included for subgroup analyses in Long COVID clinical trials. As biomarkers and diagnostic tests for Long COVID are developed and validated, this hypothesis becomes easily testable as it predicts that the same measures will also be useful for characterizing Long Vax patients.

Link | PDF (Medical Hypotheses) [Open Access]

 

[rvallee]

Furthermore, we propose that both have the same underlying pathobiology; viral persistence of SARS-CoV-2

That can't be the case because of mRNA vaccines.

It's so disappointing how big of a clue this is, how it means that there is a common factor that both vaccines, including mRNA ones, and infections must trigger, but everything is still locked in place after all this time.

But we've seen something similar in observing that other infections cause similar problems at similar rates, and the conclusion has instead been that it still doesn't matter. What an infuriating profession to see bumbling around impotently.

 

[Peter T]

I have not read the article, but do you see the same heterogeneity in Long Vax as in Long Covid?

I assume that this is not the case, and that Long Vax does not include such as the long term lung issues or cardiac issues, rather Long Vax is similar to the ME/CFS type of Long Covid. This raises the possibility that the overlap between the two is that both vaccinations and Covid can trigger ME/CFS, which is reflected in the results reported here.

 

[Utsikt]

That can't be the case because of mRNA vaccines.

They are proposing that long vax is caused by previous infections that caused viral persistence, and that the vaccine caused some kind of prolonged response to the still present virus.

It is known that 44% of all SARS-CoV-2 infections are asymptomatic [38]. We propose that a percentage of asymptomatic infections as well as a percentage of seemingly resolved acute COVID-19 infections result in immune-evasive long-term SARS-CoV-2 viral infections. With active viral suppression of innate immunity SARS-CoV-2 may persist in many cell types and tissues. Per our hypothesis, when individuals with a chronic infection are vaccinated for COVID-19, the strong stimulation of innate immunity from the vaccine’s synthetic mRNA, viral vector dsDNA, or adjuvant may make the pre-existing infection suddenly visible to the immune system. This involves localized Type I interferon production, autophagy, enhanced antigen presentation, and the recruitment of Cytotoxic T cells and Natural Killer cells to sites of viral persistence. As a result of the antiviral immune response, a host of Long COVID symptoms may develop over hours, days, and weeks (Fig. 1).

It would probably be impossible to answer directly now, because most people have been infected. And many would have had the possibility of being infected before their first vaccine dose.

They propose to «test» the hypothesis by seeing if both LC and LV respond similarly to treatments (presumably aimed at viral persistence).

 

[ukxmrv]

I have had ongoing problems since both Covid and the vaccine but for me they were totally different.

An example would be the severe head pain after the vaccine with eye pain. This was like nothing I had experienced before and the first year was hell.

After Covid i have breathing and lung problems. A high temperature and my hair started falling out.

Plus other things but they were very different.

 

[SNT Gatchaman]

It would probably be impossible to answer directly now, because most people have been infected. And many would have had the possibility of being infected before their first vaccine dose.

Not in New Zealand. Vaccine-induced ME/CFS occurred before there was community transmission of SARS-CoV-2 (beyond some isolated and controlled outbreaks). We should have been studying our population to understand the immune response once Omicron was "let rip" into a well vaccinated but virus-naive population, as this was quite different to the majority of the world.

 

[jnmaciuch]

I have not read the article, but do you see the same heterogeneity in Long Vax as in Long Covid?

I assume that this is not the case, and that Long Vax does not include such as the long term lung issues or cardiac issues, rather Long Vax is similar to the ME/CFS type of Long Covid. This raises the possibility that the overlap between the two is that both vaccinations and Covid can trigger ME/CFS, which is reflected in the results reported here.

That’s a great question, and would provide a good clue as to how much affected tissues are drivers for persisting symptoms. If so, persistent cough should be much more prevalent in post-COVID syndrome rather than post-vaccination, since only the respiratory virus is really reaching lung epithelial cells