Melatonin

@NelliePledge, this is a digression, but have you tried Sominex (which is phenergen, the antihistamine)? I have found it very effective. You can get it over the counter in the UK. My other half is over there at the moment, and always brings me back some. I'd start with a half tablet. A full one can leave you feeling dopey the next morning.

I have also tried replacing amitriptyline with nortriptyline, and found the nortrip to be less effective than the ami for sleep. In general the tricyclics seem to be rather ineffective sleep aids, and being psychotropic drugs, I'm not sure they're worth the risk just for the tiny sleep benefit. I do worry about doctors' eagerness to ply us with psychotropic drugs - I don't think its because they work all that well for sleep. I think its because deep down, they think we are messed in the head and that's why we can't sleep.
 
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Woolie said:
but have you tried Sominex (which is phenergen, the antihistamine)?
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@Woolie, I'm a bit puzzled by this. I've just looked up Sominex on Boots the Chemist online store and it describes it as a herbal sleep remedy containing hops, valerian and passion flower, which is a very well known herbal sleep remedy. (also found in other brands such as Kalms, which I use occasionally).

Phenergan is listed as an antihistamine, described thus:

''Phenergan Tablets 25mg is an all-rounder allergy tablet that can be used for hayfever, improved sleep, pet allergies, nausea while travelling, and nettle rashes. It contains 25mg of the active ingredient, Promethazine Hydrochloride.''

I wonder which one you mean?

EDIT TO ADD: @Woolie has clarified, and I've re-checked. There are two different products, Sominex Herbal and Sominex.
 
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@Trish, there must be another herbal thing that uses the same name. The one I'm talking about looks like this:
410489.jpg

You can see it has the name of the drug right there on the pack: Promethazine Hydrochloride (aka Phenergan). You buy it over the counter at Boots or Superdrug, or in lots of UK based online stores. You are only allowed to buy 16 at a time, and I think you need to give your name.
 
Woolie said:
@Trish, there must be another herbal thing that uses the same name. The one I'm talking about looks like this
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You're right, @Woolie, sorry for the confusion. Apparently the herbal one I found on the Boots site is called 'Sominex Herbal'.

Looks like a good warning to read the label properly. If you're sending someone to the chemist to buy Sominex, make sure they know not to pick up a pack of Sominex Herbal! Sorry for the confusion. I'll amend my earlier post.
 
@Woolie Thank you so much!

Apologies to all as this was a really interesting and valuable thread but I hadn’t considered it might be viewed or accessible just from a google search.

Going to delete some posts/ might take me some time as I’m crap at this sort of stuff!!
 
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Melatonin switched me from a delayed sleep cycle to a completely switched around sleep cycle.

Alvin said:
It regulates the body clock and has some sleep inducing properties, beyond that it won't do much else. Side effects when starting it are not uncommon and usually settle down but it does not improve the sleep quality of ME/CFS, just the two things i mentioned.
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Resetting the sleep cycle to be at night could indirectly improve sleep quality. Unfortunately, it did the opposite for me.
 
Ryan31337 said:
Years ago I tried melatonin supplements, I found they got me off to sleep quite well but I would often then wake up in the middle of the night, almost like a rebound effect.

More recently a sleep study showed I had very poor quality sleep, not uncommon in POTS patients, so was prescribed Circadin. The neurologist was quite insistent that it being pharmaceutical grade and slow release meant that it would work much better.

I don't think it has worked any miracles but I do notice generally more consistent sleep and the drowsiness on demand that it provides is quite handy.
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the slow release ones do keep you asleep through the night - i use them for jet lag and they work wonders
 
NelliePledge said:
I'm in the UK and 54 years old I recently asked my GP for melatonin as I have problems getting to sleep often awake at 3 or 4 am occasionally 6am. Once I get to sleep I can usually sleep for 6 hours. I found Amitryptyline gives a hangover effect even at 10mg and it stopped working and I didn't want to increase the dose and hangover. Anyway I was told that in my area Melatonin can only be prescribed by a specialist. There isn't a specialist who deals with ME to be referred to so that's a dead end. I asked about sleep referral and they only do that for suspected sleep apnea.......I ended up swapping to nortryptiline 10mg instead which was a bad hangover for a couple of months and not totally reliable either.

I'm not keen on buying melatonin online in the UK in one of the tick box private prescription sites as the prices are a bit steep. Ive asked a friend to get a supply of 1mg melatonin when she's in the USA on holiday. It is $8 for two bottles in Walgreens. Once I've given it a try if it works I will go back to my GP. I know Melatonin isn't a panacea but it seems crazy when it is so cheap over the counter in US where drugs are often more expensive that we can't have it as an option here through the NHS.
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I get it from a website in the US and also if I ever go over there. I get terrible zombie hangover on normal sleeping pills including antihistamines. The melatonin can sometimes have a slight hangover for me at the higher doses but a couple of coffees gets rid of it, whereas they dont shift the other sleeping pill effects. I need to do another order soon and am also in your area so if you want I can send you the link I use or I can order some for you and send on.
 
Sbag said:
I get it from a website in the US and also if I ever go over there. I get terrible zombie hangover on normal sleeping pills including antihistamines. The melatonin can sometimes have a slight hangover for me at the higher doses but a couple of coffees gets rid of it, whereas they dont shift the other sleeping pill effects. I need to do another order soon and am also in your area so if you want I can send you the link I use or I can order some for you and send on.
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Thanks for the offer but I've got a friend bringing some back from her holiday in the USA.
 
You get Melatonin e.g. from Biovea, too. It should ship to UK. It was my "last option" if anything should fail. But I go better with the "retard pills".

@mods:
If I'm not allowed to say that, please delete my post.
 
Some patients I know take or took Agomelatin (Valdoxan) which is a relativ to Melatonin, but has some antagonistic properties on the 5HT2C-receptors.
I myself stick to Melatonin, the non slow release type. But has anyone else experience with both, Agomelatin and Melatonin?
 
Some foods naturally contain melatonin and are therefore great to have at an evening meal or as a light night time snack:

  • Bananas
  • Morello cherries
  • Porridge oats
  • Sweet corn
  • Rice
  • Ginger
  • Barley
  • Tomatoes
  • Radishes
  • Red wine
Foods that contain tryptophan can also be eaten in the evening as these help induce production of serotonin, which is required to make melatonin:

  • Dairy products (avoid cheese though)
  • Soy
  • Nuts
  • Seafood
  • Turkey and chicken
  • Whole grains
  • Beans and pulses
  • Rice
  • Eggs
  • Sesame seeds
  • Sunflower seeds
Some micronutrients are also important in the production of melatonin, including:

  • Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate)
  • Zinc
  • Magnesium
  • Folic acid

    Don't think I'd go for the Red Wine (can't drink alcohol anymore), but I do have a few bites on a banana when I can't get to sleep.
 
A research paper investigating melatonin use in older people (age 50+), including the subject of the most effective dosage to take, and some consequences of taking too much :

Melatonin Treatment for Age-Related Insomnia

Link : http://web.mit.edu/dick/www/pdf/975.pdf

(Bolding and additional spacing mine)

Older people typically exhibit poor sleep efficiency and reduced nocturnal plasma melatonin levels. The daytime administration of oral melatonin to younger people, in doses that raise their plasma melatonin levels to the nocturnal range, can accelerate sleep onset.

We examined the ability of similar, physiological doses to restore nighttime melatonin levels and sleep efficiency in insomniac subjects over 50 yr old. In a double-blind, placebo-controlled study, subjects who slept normally (n=15) or exhibited actigraphically confirmed decreases in sleep efficiency (n = 15) received, in randomized order, a placebo and three melatonin doses (0.1, 0.3, and 3.0 mg) orally 30 min before bedtime for a week.

Treatments were separated by 1-wk washout periods. Sleep data were obtained by polysomnography on the last three nights of each treatment period.

The physiologic melatonin dose (0.3 mg) restored sleep efficiency (P < 0.0001), acting principally in the midthird of the night; it also elevated plasma melatonin levels (P < 0.0008) to normal. The pharmacologic dose (3.0 mg), like the lowest dose (0.1 mg), also improved sleep; however, it induced hypothermia and caused plasma melatonin to remain elevated into the daylight hours.

Although control subjects, like insomniacs, had low melatonin levels, their sleep was unaffected by any melatonin dose. (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 86: 4727– 4730, 2001)
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I was completely unaware of the connection between melatonin and hypothermia. As someone who struggles to stay warm in bed for most of the year this is info I definitely need to know!

I haven't read much of the paper because the text is printed with little spacing and is far too dense for me to cope with, but I thought someone might be interested.
 
Thats very interesting, i did not know higher doses caused residual effects, though i did know the sleep improvement does not extend above 1mg (a dose they didn't test unfortunately).
 
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