Metabolomic Evidence for Peroxisomal Dysfunction in Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, 2022, Levine,Hornig,Lipkin et al

Another thought about this paper. So far every ME metabolomics paper I've seen doesn't have a disease control. I'm very keen to see that because the metabolome is extremely dynamic and it seems plausible to me that effects like the one seen in this paper could be a knock on effect of something else. Maybe it's something commonly seen as a result on many pathological processes.
 
Murph said:
I regret that the supplement itself has an animal-linked name that makes it sound suspicious rather than a scientific name that makes it sound serious, nevertheless a team of scientists from a good university have found it effective in raising blood levels of plasmalogens:

Shark liver oil supplementation enriches endogenous plasmalogens and reduces markers of dyslipidemia and inflammation

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34146594/
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I read the first line and was thinking 'how bad could it be?' I wasn't expecting something that sounds so much like an aphrodisiac.
 
Ash said:
It’s actual shark liver oil no?
That seems like not something we’d wanna be grabbing on mass, given existing problems with over fishing and shark populations.
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My reading is that the oil mostly comes from "dogfish" which is the shark they use for fish and chips. Apparently they're catching these fish anyway, they're pleased to be able to use the livers for something. What's more 25% of the weight of the shark is liver.

Happily, dogfish is not overfished
https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/species/atlantic-spiny-dogfish

In my view it's not conceptually different from a lot of omega-3 supplements, but as I observed earlier, the name gives people pause.
 
Murph said:
My reading is that the oil mostly comes from "dogfish" which is the shark they use for fish and chips. Apparently they're catching these fish anyway, they're pleased to be able to use the livers for something. What's more 25% of the weight of the shark is liver.

Happily, dogfish is not overfished
https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/species/atlantic-spiny-dogfish

In my view it's not conceptually different from a lot of omega-3 supplements, but as I observed earlier, the name gives people pause.
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Ahh I couldn’t work out what you meant. That sounds better.

Yeah, I heard there were problems with the other omega fish oils too. I guess also there is the problem of pollution in the ocean making these toxic too.

I don’t know what the answer is because people cannot necessarily manage on the less useful plant oils.

I definitely have had slight improvements when I did take Krill oils.
 
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I have a 3 page report re RBC fatty acids, my omega 3 levels were at 3%. All the the others were within normal range. Taking plant based oils didn't work for me based on my results.

I take Webber triple Omega 3 fish oils b/c it's IVO My brain function had noticeably improved after taking omega 3 fish oils for 3 months.
 
Related to peroxisomal function and a key product of the peroxisome, the plasmalogen:

Having considered this paper on plasmalogen replacement therapy I've bought shark liver oil and started taking a couple of tablets a day. The product I got is this one:

https://www.beevitamins.com.au/products/costar-shark-liver-oil-1000mg-365-capsules-australian-made

I don't just take any old supplement. This meets my criteria of being research-backed on both sides: plasmalogens are shown to be deficient in mecfs and this product category is shown to be beneficial in increasing plasmalogens. It's inexpensive and, being an animal fat, likely to be safe in modest doses.

Took them yesterday and certainly feel no worse today. Will report back on whether I notice anything material over the medium term.

As for all such endeavours it's most likely I won't be able to tell signal from noise, since the causation in the research is unclear, the product quality is unclear, and my background symptom variation is high enough to obscure all but the most significant changes.
 
Murph said:
Related to peroxisomal function and a key product of the peroxisome, the plasmalogen:

Having considered this paper on plasmalogen replacement therapy I've bought shark liver oil and started taking a couple of tablets a day. The product I got is this one:

https://www.beevitamins.com.au/products/costar-shark-liver-oil-1000mg-365-capsules-australian-made

I don't just take any old supplement. This meets my criteria of being research-backed on both sides: plasmalogens are shown to be deficient in mecfs and this product category is shown to be beneficial in increasing plasmalogens. It's inexpensive and, being an animal fat, likely to be safe in modest doses.

Took them yesterday and certainly feel no worse today. Will report back on whether I notice anything material over the medium term.

As for all such endeavours it's most likely I won't be able to tell signal from noise, since the causation in the research is unclear, the product quality is unclear, and my background symptom variation is high enough to obscure all but the most significant changes.
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two month update: feel quite a bit better. Absolutely unable to confidently tell you if it's the shark liver oil.

Lag is a real issue with identifying cause and effect because (1) lag makes it hard to avoid confounders creeping in while you wait for the effect to arrive, and (2) makes doing a cross-over trail type design slow too. After I stop taking the tablet I need to wait weeks to see if it does anything. I'm very much for bottom-up community based scientific endeavour but I'm also opposed to using the if-that-worked-we'd-know argument. A product that provided a 20% improvement to 40% of people with a 4 week lag, holding other things constant, would be a) hard to identify from unstructured forum chat but b) valuable.
 
Murph said:
two month update: feel quite a bit better. Absolutely unable to confidently tell you if it's the shark liver oil.
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Good to hear that you're feeling positive effects from the shark oil. Could you elaborate a little? I'm assuming it's not cognitive improvement like my own experience from taking omega 3's which was easier to recognize and more obvious.
 
Mij said:
Good to hear that you're feeling positive effects from the shark oil. Could you elaborate a little?
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I'm feeling positive effects and taking shark oil, not sure about the from. Can't ascribe causation!

Just generally have a higher pem threshold, can walk the dog a bit again. less ruined after the weekend (i have kids).

Mij said:
I hope they're not 'finning' them :(
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The oil comes from "dogfish" that are caught for meat. The shark liver oil is a byproduct. A few capsules barely even touches the sides of what's available though, a shark's liver is 20 percent of its weight!
 
7 month update, I can't rule out the possibility that plasmalogen supplements have helped me, I have felt a bit healthier / better over the last six months, been doing more exercise.

Quite a few papers have come out on plasmalogens too, including these two that involve dietary supplementation:

Plasmalogens Activate AKT/mTOR Signaling to Attenuate Reactive Oxygen Species Production in Spinal Cord Injury

An optimized plasmalogen modulating dietary supplement provides greater protection in a male than female mouse model of dilated cardiomyopathy

This post does not constitute a recommendation to take them! It's certainly not a +50% in one day type intervention where you can be confident what caused the improvement. I have changed other things in my life this year that could explain my health uptick.

I'm not claiming anything, just chucking a confounded n=1 onto the pile in case later other users, who might also have confounded n=1 stories, can make a n>1 story; the plural of anecdote being data.
 
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The thing for me regarding exercise is that I have periods when I'm able to do more exercise, not increasing the amount in one session, but can do more of the same more often in the week. I wake up in the morning feeling almost normal. I don't take any supplements to achieve this, it just happens without rhyme or reason.

I take electrolytes but who knows if that helps but I do feel 'better' when sitting upright in the evenings after I've been out for my power walks.
 
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