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New Name For "Brain Fog"?

Discussion in 'Neurological/cognitive/vision' started by Colin, Oct 25, 2020.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  2. mango

    mango Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In contrast to the BPS view, University of Gothenburg's information on mental fatigue/brain fatigue research has been updated recently, at least the Swedish version. (The English version currently only has a very short summary.) Doesn't mention ME, but neurological illnesses in general. :thumbsup:

    Mental trötthet / Hjärntrötthet
    https://www.gu.se/forskning/mental-trotthet-hjarntrotthet

    Google Translate, English
     
  3. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Weird.

    Neither of those articles really describe the processing problems I seem to experience that then give rise to memory or attention problems.

    I can be alert and paying attention, the data is coming in and I am aware of it but.....I can't utilise & manipulate it. By manipulate I mean perhaps connect related bits, convert left to right depending on direction when map reading kind of thing.

    As I continue to try to manipulate and make use of the data my ability decreases exponentially and then I struggle to take in as much data and keep hold of it.
     
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  4. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    "Brain Fog" probably has a lot of different aspects, but I wonder if "word finding" (difficulty coming up with the right word to use) would be one of the more objectively testable symptoms.

    Something that's also objective that I'd look for might be called "question response time." I don't know how common it is, but early on people noticed that, when they asked me a question, I would take an inordinate amount of time to "rally" my thoughts and respond. It gave the impression of thoughtful consideration on my part (to basic questions), but it was really more of a difficulty in processing the question and constructing an answer.
     
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  5. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I wonder if inability to reverse left and right might be another.

    For example if I walked down my road and number 12 was in my left & I met someone walking up the road in the opposite direction looking for number 12, I become unable to tell them it would be on their right as they walk up the road.

    Basic maths is another thing that tanks - back in the pre covid days of cash if I bought something for 75p for example and had that precise amount in change I couldn't count it quick enough so I'd end up handing over a fiver instead.
     
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  6. AliceLily

    AliceLily Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I joined marching as a child and you had to know your left from right. So the reverse example isn't a problem either for me. It's funny when catching a cab home, when I say right to the driver they often are confused and I have to point it out because they can't figure it out quick enough.
     
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  7. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It wasn't for me either until I got ME. I'm still okay with it until cognitive decline kicks in.

    Telling left from right, especially when facing direct of travel, isn't so bad.

    I was used to map reading with a glance of a map open on the passenger seat of a car. I could be in a strange place and didn't have a problem if travelling south and north north or east vs west working all that out in a glance.

    With cognitive decline if I passed a house on my left and then met someone coming the other way I wouldn't be able to tell them the house is on the right. For me the difference in function is very marked. Perhaps that's not typical though?
     
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  8. AliceLily

    AliceLily Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Invisible Woman For the left and right example, possibly a slower response in my severer years due to not only the cognitive side but the physically painful head I experienced in those years. Moderate not a problem. So if were to take that test I think I would pass it if not in severe PEM or severe level? In saying that, I guess you never know I might be telling a fib!
     
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  9. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interesting @Rosie.

    For me this is a very marked deterioration from my best (least worst) day to when my cognitive function is in decline. It's not just slower. The ability completely disappears.

    The word finding business and vocabulary does get worse but is much worse than it was even at baseline these days. It seems that it's been permanently affected.

    The vocabulary is still there but is less readily available. I understand the words but when I'm writing they just don't seem to be readily accessible. Like they've been archived rather than left on the shelf for daily use.

    So while vocabulary does deteriorate with cognitive function decline, I think testing that in my case would be misleading as the deterioration when in cognitive difficulty would seem less pronounced than it did 15 years ago, although my ME is much worse now. (Relapses aside where comms skills virtually disappeared altogether).

    Perhaps what happens to each of us cognitively is as varied as what happens physically?

    Edit- spelling
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
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  10. AliceLily

    AliceLily Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Invisible Woman I agree with you. I experience the same but with the exception of the left, right example - possibly because I was a marcher, I had it drummed into me as a child and I think I probably work on auto pilot when it comes to working out the left, right situation.

    My cognitive difficulties are so significant when very severe that I have a book of lists to help me with all sorts of things in case I get very severe and can't think to help myself. Even at moderate I still can't follow a lot of threads here and all many voices and opinions, it flares up cognitive symptoms.
     
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  11. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Not meaning to be contrary @Rosie but my point is that here our experience differs significantly. That difference is meaningful because it means this isnt something we can use a guide, if you see what I mean.

    My experience is that my ability to something I was extremely good at and very used to doing is badly affected by my cognitive problems.

    If I am understanding correctly, you are saying that because you were very used to doing something and good at it that it isn't affected by your cognitive problems.

    We both undoubtedly have cognitive problems.

    So, based on our n=2, we can't say all pwME tend to have problems specifically with things they were good at or used to doing & we can't state the opposite either.
     
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  12. AliceLily

    AliceLily Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In that one instance I described I don't think I am affected as greatly in reaction time. But, I could be wrong!
     
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  13. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    :hug: @ Rosie.

    That's the trouble, isn't it?

    It's impossible to observe your cognitive decline until it's happening and then the chances are our memory of it won't exactly be precise!
     
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  14. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is my experience also. It is fatigue in the sense that effort required for a given level of mental performance increases rapidly until no amount of effort works and the mental ability just disappears.
    It is most revealing when doing an exam - you start off with some ability, but by the third hour, all your normal level of ability is lost in fog and no amount of concentration or effort will help.
     
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  15. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My cognitive impairment manifests the same way as my physical impairment. I reach a certain point and can no longer move forward; it's like walking in thick heavy mud. It's full-stop until I recharge.
     
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