Just highlighting these two posts in the "ME debate in Danish Parliament March 12 (2019)" thread. Millions Missing Denmark is asking for urgent support. https://www.s4me.info/threads/me-debate-in-danish-parliament-march-12-2019.7988/#post-149143 https://www.s4me.info/threads/me-debate-in-danish-parliament-march-12-2019.7988/#post-149187
The Swedish national public television with four articles about a husband who last week got arrested suspected for murdering his wife. It turns out the wife suffered from severe ME and that this was an assisted suicide. A representative from the patient organisation confirms that suicides and assisted suicides do happen. The couple had appealed for help several times from the municipality, but were dismissed. SVT: Åklagaren: "En form av aktiv dödshjälp" SVT: Dråpsmisstänkt vårdade hustrun under lång tid SVT: Kamfors kommun: "Vi vill uttrycka vår medkänsla" SVT: "Självmord och dödshjälp förekommer" I wasn't able to google translate these articles, but the headlines says: Prosecutor: A form of assisted suicide Murder suspect cared for wife over a long period of time Kamfors municipality: We want to offer our sympathy "Suicides and assisted suicides happen"
Oh, no. Not again...... How heartbrakingly sad Gertie Gladnikoff is said to be a patients representative in the article. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vasternorrland/me-foreningen-sjalvmord-och-dodshjalp-forekommer Now the articles I read don't have any indication of what the wifes wishes where. There is a difference to me, if this was his desicion, or hers. Either way, it's terrible tragic and a reflection of the deep despair getting no help in a desperate situation. The comment from the head of the welfare administration to what happened is just sickening. (at the end of the quote)
Really hope I didn't sound to insensitive, it's all terrible sad situation. Just ment as a reminder that we don't know.
No no you didn't sound insensitive at all, I'm sorry if I gave you that impression from my comment it was unintentional . My thought was also that we just don't know, and that it takes time for the authorities to fully investigate and reach a conclusion.
A very eager proponent in Sweden for the biosychosocial approach to ME and Lightning Process, paediatrician Mats Reimer, is now quitting as blogger for Dagens Medicin, a news site about medicine. Sten Helmfrid shared the news on twitter with a picture from Reimer's goodbye post where Reimer says (hastily translated): When it comes to the, according to SBU (Swedish Agency for Health Technology Assessment and Assessment of Social Services) and the National Board of Health and Welfare, evidence-poor question regarding treatment of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome ("ME"), there are no international consensus, and I have thought the arguments from the bio-pscho-social side were more convincing. That makes one collide with Swedish "ME"-wards and with the patient organisation. It went so far that one of the most active "ME"-predecessors at ResearchGate published a "scientific" article about my blogging. In the end the editors at Dagens Medicin thought there was lacking a balance compared with the few articles about "ME" from the editorial staff. I was asked to find other fora to published my texts about chronic fatigue syndrome. https://twitter.com/user/status/1105381012937297922 https://twitter.com/user/status/1105381592413933568
Here's Mats Reimer's goodbye blog post in full. Apparently he's been controversial in several matters. Sista bloggen - tack och adjö efter elva år google translate: Last blog - thank you and goodbye after eleven years
His 'goodby-article' is rather a facinating read. How do you go from: To: I just don't get it? The arguments seems convincing....? How about the actual science? Never mind the quackery quality of the science. Good job 'Dagens Medicin'
Thank you for reassuring me mostly my own insecurity, about foreign language and foggy brain. I usually avoid the more sensitive topics as it is so easy to unintentionally get it wrong.
I think your English is very good @inox , and I admire you because I also feel insecure posting with my foggy brain and English is my first language . I appreciate all the contributions in this thread, yours and those of others. They not only help me understand a little of what is happening in Scandinavia, but also help me feel part of a large international community who are supporting each other towards the same goal.
There's been a lot of amazing ME/CFS coverage in Denmark for the past few days. I feel like it deserves a thread of its own. But I don't have the energy. It's about the ME/CFS debate in Danish parliament. The Danish 'ME-Forening' and the Ilsøe family have been doing an incredible job. Sadly the only coverage that is not behind a paywall is some coverage where P. Fink gets interviewed. The interview doesn't do the coverage justice though. There have been about 2 daily articles in Politiken.dk about ME/CFS, and they have often been the most read articles. Very touching stuff! Danish version https://propatienter.dk/sygdomme/mu...fmqAfLC9nMrI0L9P86kjmgb_eJoiMCEGgVebdfAa22NR8 English version https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=da&tl=en&u=https://propatienter.dk/sygdomme/muskler/1977-debat-i-folketinget-i-dag-29-arig-kvinde-har-ligget-to-ar-i-morkt-rum.html?fbclid=IwAR3w_jGbBPNjeQbN0rpxRSNK547KxMtOiLAQSLjSvSMivhEp9N1e58hVgl0 Finks comments are gaga. Will quote some of them below.
Have you seen this thread https://www.s4me.info/threads/me-debate-in-danish-parliament-march-12-2019.7988/#post-149394 @Rick Sanchez ?
Some people can be very weird and no amount of training will change that. Henrik Vogt, one of the cheerleaders of the LP, is supposed to be an expert in something like the philosophy and history of medicine. He knows all about the mistakes medicine made in the past, some of which, like peptic ulcers, are nearly identical to the dumpster fire of the psychosocial model of ME. And still he doesn't see the connection. They're two peas in a pod but one is a slightly lighter shade than the other and somehow, nope, can't see it. Sometimes people just can't see what's in their face, or are blinded by personal connections, like Goldacre, the "professional skeptic" who can't see anything wrong with PACE because the psychosocial ideology is, in his mind, the most interesting thing happening in medicine and is promoted by his mentor Simon Wessely.
A rather frustrating letter to the editor in a Norwegian news site for medicine, Dagens Medisin. It is written by a GP and military doctor. She defends the biopsychosocial approach to ME and criticises the recent ME-motion from the British Parliament. She refers to China's government censoring access to scientific journals (god knows what the relevance to ME is). She is also worried about how the media is being manipulated and refers to when the Lightning Process coach Live Landmark recently wrote a letter to the editor to a newspaper blaming patients for a family tragedy in Bjärred, Sweden. That was over the line, so the newspaper decided to retract it. This doctor however describes the incident as someone who had argued for cognitive therapy for ME-patients, and that it got withdrawn because the author had promoted alternative treatment. She also says people claim that cognitive therapy isn't well enough documented as treatment for ME, but that shouldn't hinder more research into it. It's hard to find examples on illnesses without any psychological factors, and it would be very odd if ME was unique in that matter, according to the author. Ytringsfrihet i Helse-Norge google translation: Freedom of speech in Health-Norway
Politiken has had some good ME articles lately about the motion in the Parliament on removing ME from functional disorders. Now they have received a letter to the editor by MD Lisa Vest Johansen about the frustration among doctors with these patients. It is rarely that the doctor, on his own initiative, comes to the conclusion that it is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Because most of us do not believe in it. Læge: Er det arrogance eller afmagt, der får os læger frem til konklusionen "kronisk træthedssyndrom"? google translation: Is it arrogance or powerlessness that causes us doctors to reach the conclusion "chronic fatigue syndrome"?
Well, yeah, that's the problem. Personal beliefs should not be a factor in clinical practice. That's just wrong.
