News from The Netherlands

Discussion in 'Regional news' started by ME/CFS Skeptic, May 6, 2020.

  1. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    'Invisible'. Covered up. Disbelieved. Denied to exist until it explodes so much it can't be fully ignored. Not really the same thing. The people who should be aware of this literally refuse to record it, usually don't recognize it when they see it, and talk nonsense about it most of the time.

    And still with the 'mysterious'. It's not a freaking Scooby-Doo villain, folks. After 4.5 years to still be stuck on fake ineptitude is just pathetic. Even more so when the same health care systems that should be solving this have instead chosen to make every possible decision to make it worse. Through sheer ineptitude. So clearly the ineptitude isn't all fake, but it's more of a "pretend to act like a clown long enough and it's pretty much the same thing as acting like a clown".

    I mean, look at them, "trialing" things have not shown any effectiveness anywhere, things that have been tried and failed already. What's up with this weird national chauvinism here? Every single health care system, big or small, has to do all the exact same things as all the others. They coordinate nothing, it's maximum redundancy for maximum costs and the worse possible results. These people need more help than we do. They are completely lost and can't even admit it.
     
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  2. Turtle

    Turtle Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    10.000 is the number of benefits from work related insurance. Full and partial benefits. That's for those who got it. There are many who didn't or had to go to court to fight for it.
    As I had to do over ME/CFS. (I won).
    Then there is the group that wasn't insured they get nothing or social (community council) benefits.
    The real number of LC patients.....???
    The real number of ME/CFS patients.....???
    I don't even follow the news in my own country anymore, this news came from the other side of the world, thanks @SNT Gatchaman!
     
  3. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  4. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  5. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    NKCV is the "Dutch Knowledge Center for Chronic Fatigue", an outpatient clinic of the Amsterdam UMC. It's either headed by, or involves, Hans Knoop. It promises to treat and conduct research for people with "chronic fatigue". Boasts of seeing 550 patients per year.

    Their website has a list of testimonials from patients saying all sorts of good things about the clinic. Quite similar in wording and general style to the LP website.

    And many of those testimonials are fake. The patients quoted don't even exist. They are represented by pictures taken from stock photos. At least several of them are. Maybe there are real testimonies in there. Probably not.

    Unfortunately, I have full confidence that even if this were explicitly not allowed, and it was pointed out to an authority dealing with this, it would make no difference. They would feign some error from some intern, or whatever, make up new ones, or possibly, if they had been smart to begin with, use AI-generated pictures. I'm actually baffled they didn't do that.

    It's just par for the course for modern biopsychosocial medicine to just lie and make stuff up, even fake testimonials from fake patients. Which is explicitly illegal in many countries when it comes to customer reviews. I doubt it applies to health care, however, assuming that physicians would never do that. They probably do that a lot. Ah well. The perks of being allowed to both make your own rules, and not bother enforcing them.

    Thread with links to the stock photos they were taken from:
     
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  6. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for reporting that @rvallee. I very much hope someone will make a complaint and the veracity of the testimonials will be investigated. Of course, as you say, there will be plenty of wriggle room and any sanction will be trivial, but still.
    The clinic probably believes that anything they do that increases patients faith in their cures is justified, as faith is part of the curative mechanism. And, having a photo of someone offering a testimonial does greatly increase the credibility... until people find out that they are stock photos.
     
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  7. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  8. Turtle

    Turtle Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Looks better than the Lifelines they wanted to use before (Rosmalen).
    What a pity that I'm too old to participate. 18 - 65 years.
     
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  9. MatthiasRiem

    MatthiasRiem Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    News from the Dutch Federation of Medical Specialists (Federatie Medisch Specialisten) on the development of new guidelines for ME/CFS.
    That the process had started has been known for quite some time. The names of the members of the guideline committee had already leaked out, but I think this is the first time they have been officially made public.

    Names that stand out: Hans Knoop and Jos van der Meer


    https://demedischspecialist.nl/nieuwsoverzicht/nieuws/ontwikkeling-richtlijn-mecvs
    machine translation: https://demedischspecialist-nl.tran...n-mecvs?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en
     
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  10. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    That sounds frightening @MatthiasRiem. Some of the committee are from ME/CFS charities?

    I note that the process is aiming to provide guidelines for adults only - which conveniently sidesteps the Magenta study. But of course the guidelines will be applied to children. I wonder if the charities could argue for the guideline to cover children and young people also, as NICE's guideline does.

    And of course the Cochrane 2024 Larun et al is all bright and shiny and new, ready for this guideline development process. Will there be public consultation?
     
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  11. Chestnut tree

    Chestnut tree Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    These are not the only worrying members. I am horrified.
     
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  12. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Post-COVID expertise centers for children open in The Netherlands
    (February 1).

    All University Medical Centres in The Netherlands (Google translation
    from Dutch to English),
    https://www-nfu-nl.translate.goog/a...eren-open?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    Amsterdam University Medical Centre (Google translation from Dutch to
    English),
    https://www-amsterdamumc-org.transl...-open.htm?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    Maastricht University Medical Centre (Google translation from Dutch to
    English),
    https://www-mumc-nl.translate.goog/...eren-open?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en

    Utrecht University Medical Centre (Google translation from Dutch to
    English),
    https://www-umcutrecht-nl.translate...eren-open?_x_tr_sl=nl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2025
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  13. forestglip

    forestglip Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Postviral Ethics Conference talk #NietHersteld

    Video description:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epIC1TV8XnQ




    Snippets:
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2025
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  14. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Almost 500,000 Long Covid suffers is "tip of the iceberg"

    Some 450,000 people have been diagnosed with long Covid since the virus first appeared in the Netherlands, 12,000 of whom are unable to work full-time, according to new figures.

    The number of patients entitled to an incapacity benefit known as WIA, paid out to those who are off work for at least two years, has quadrupled from 3,000 since 2023, the unemployment insurance agency UWV said.

    But patients’ organisation PostCovidNL said the figures represented the tip of the iceberg. They estimate that 90,000 people are currently struggling with long Covid, but many are not entitled to claim benefits.

    LINK
     
  15. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Unless I misread it, this is a laughable undercount since it only accounts for people who have been approved for disability benefits. No mention in this source but I saw it elsewhere, and do correct me if I'm wrong. And it makes sense, we know about 90% typically don't get approved. But what a terrible way to frame this, clearly on purpose.
     
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  16. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What about people who can't leave their homes and continue to cancel appointments and listed as "missed appointment" on their file without any explanation.
     
    Peter Trewhitt likes this.

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