Paul Garner on Long Covid and ME/CFS - BMJ articles and other media.

Discussion in 'Long Covid news' started by lycaena, May 5, 2020.

  1. Lucibee

    Lucibee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The PG quote that most stands out to me is this one:

    Why would anyone want to shut down research just because they think a disease is permanent? It doesn't make any sense at all! I guess it's all part of the smokescreen they are creating.
     
  2. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I had a very quick look at that paper in this post: https://www.s4me.info/threads/paul-...les-and-other-media.15629/page-57#post-337451

    As you said, it didn't seem that relevant and I couldn't find the exact figures quoted in the report either. It was only a very quick look though so I may have missed something. It seemed a strange thing to bring up, other than in the hope it might be useful for PR spin.
     
  3. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The spin is that only BPS research is valid. As usual the problem is that no one points out or cares about it being false and absurd. They obviously know that we are behind most of the research, either in directly funding it or forcing institutions to fulfill their obligations, and that is precisely why they try their hardest to shut down all research. They also know that our number one demand for decades has been research funding. And as bullies go, they DARVO and accuse us of the very thing they are doing, simply because they can get away with it without being challenged by anyone.
     
  4. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Here's what I would write to the BBC.

    Edit: Oops, left out my section about NICE and PACE. I'll try to retrieve it and add it. Added in blue.

    Second edit. Much shortened version submitted to BBC complaints. See my later post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  5. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    At one point surveying medical professionals would have lead to the conclusion bleeding using leaches was a good idea. It doesn't seem like a good way to draw a conclusion about the validity of a treatment especially as you point out when something is new and there is no experience.
     
  6. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    Reading between the lines what I guess he is saying is research into GET and LP shouldn't be shut down (hence the comment on recovery). But I would argue funding such research is a waste of money (and unethical) unless there is a good reason to believe it would work - which there is not (along with considering the potential harms). As well as the fact that those who are most likely to do such research have proved themselves incapable of running a trial that can give meaningful results.
     
  7. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    There is a 2000 character limit.
     
  8. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Can someone give me the link for contacting the BBC to complain about the program.
     
  9. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    BBC Complaints page

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/contact/complaints

    You need the name, date and time of the programme you want to complain about.

    [Added I tried to add a link that took you to further on into the process to where you start complaining about a specific programme but that didn’t work]
     
  10. boolybooly

    boolybooly Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That is an interesting point because, if that was the study referred to, it was used in such a way it reinforced Garner and Singh's GET statements but was out of context when applied to a discussion of long covid which was the point of the piece which started with "how do you treat long covid?"
     
  11. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks, I found the complaints section and have submitted my complaint. Here's the wording I used:

     
  12. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  13. boolybooly

    boolybooly Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is it just me, does this even make sense? It appears to be self contradictory, garbled.

     
  14. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So...just because he doesn't have one of the cardinal symptoms, exercise intolerance, and presumably he doesn't have PEM either, as you can't beat PEM by fighting it, I know, I tried for years, and years, he thinks that still means that he had ME, regardless.

    The man is a ........
     
  15. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Was he ever clinically diagnosed, or was this all self-diagnosis?
     
  16. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  17. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So he doesn't say he was diagnosed then, he implies it but doesn't say it.
     
  18. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    An inquiry into why pwME are frequently maligned, the lack of research funding, the lack of medical training re this disease etc., is a very good idea. However, from what I've seen of inquiries, they're good for expense accounts, and may produce important info, but do they improve things in a meaningful way?

    On the other hand, there does seem to be a concerted effort to keep pwME under control, negatively portrayed, streamed into one form of treatment, restrict in-depth testing etc.
     
  19. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Technically it was the difference between the arms that was not sustained. That is, neither CBT nor GET offered any advantage over APT or SMC in the long term.

    And that is using their much more generous post-hoc definitions. If you use their original protocol definitions, there is not even any apparent advantage to start with.
     
  20. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, this is important. the other groups "caught up" in essence, at least in terms of how everyone answered the questionnaires. So no differences were apparent at follow-up. But that doesn't stop these investigators from then deciding that the most important outcome is that the benefits were "sustained" for their interventions--even tho as a clinical trial the results were null. Like the GETSET follow-up--null results but they reported a success because of "within-group" results. it is hucksterism.
     

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