Paul Garner on Long Covid and ME/CFS - BMJ articles and other media.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Please, Prof. Garner, go and do something harmless like cultivating parsnips. They're very tasty when roasted.

Yes, but even parsnips can be overdone and shrivel up.
Maybe he should just try yoga.

 

[rvallee]

Zero 'likes' on this one for PG suggests a profound lack of success, even below the baseline expectation of zero.

But he'll swear that millions have benefited from this and the only reason it's being resisted is because of hundreds of unhinged activists, or something like it. Those recovered vouching for it are right around the corner, you can't see them, or talk to them, or know anything about them other than the fact that they totally exist and whatnot.

 

[MrMagoo]

But he'll swear that millions have benefited from this and the only reason it's being resisted is because of hundreds of unhinged activists, or something like it. Those recovered vouching for it are right around the corner, you can't see them, or talk to them, or know anything about them other than the fact that they totally exist and whatnot.

He can say what he wants, nobody particularly respects him on the subject, or wants to hear it.

There are people out there just now on the internet who are swearing that Prince Harry doesn’t have kids and the children you see are actors, doesn’t make it believable.

 

[Peter T]

He can say what he wants, nobody particularly respects him on the subject, or wants to hear it.

But he is getting air time and column inches. He is part of a grouping that has the ears of policy makers and who are saying what many service providers are wanting to hear. Change is happening but it is be no means clear that inappropriate psychological and exercise based interventions will not continue as the default health provision for ME/CFS and Long Covid.

 

[Trish]

I can't help wondering whether somebody is paying him to campaign for brain training and against ME/CFS being recognised as a physical disease. Why else would someone with presumably a solid track record in his field choose to expend effort in retirement on something that he must surely know is unevidenced in any scientific sense and has such potential for harm? His statements like 'NICE bans walking' is so clearly untrue he is making a fool of himself.

We know Sharpe and White have conflicts of interest by being employed by insurance companies to diagnose ME/CFS as psychosomatic so they don't have to pay people disability. Maybe they are employing Garner too.

 

[InitialConditions]

I can't help wondering whether somebody is paying him to campaign for brain training and against ME/CFS being recognised as a physical disease. Why else would someone with presumably a solid track record in his field choose to expend effort in retirement on something that he must surely know is unevidenced in any scientific sense and has such potential for harm? His statements like 'NICE bans walking' is so clearly untrue he is making a fool of himself.

We know Sharpe and White have conflicts of interest by being employed by insurance companies to diagnose ME/CFS as psychosomatic so they don't have to pay people disability. Maybe they are employing Garner too.

I think this is unlikely, although I do believe he is intent on influencing treatment and care via guidelines, etc.

As i have said before (probably in this thread): he had a very powerful experience in that he recovered around the time he was introduced to the mind–body stuff and clearly attributes it to that. He simply cannot grasp that his experiences — ill for only ~6 months; had periods where he admits to feeling fully well between crashes; was able to do intense exercise and go scuba diving; scared himself silly in the initial months — do not apply to everyone else.

This does seem to have become his hobby horse for retirement.

But he is making a fool of himself, and it's fascinating to watch.

 

[Kitty]

But he is making a fool of himself, and it's fascinating to watch.

I thought that too initially, but it seems to be more than taking a position and being too stubborn to back down. The sheer level of obsession and irrationality makes me think that if I were his friend I'd be worried about his wellbeing.

 

[Mij]

The wolf has officially entered the henhouse.

Fast forward 2 1/2 years later . . . we had a wolf (woof) problem. Our coop was pretty secure so this wolf couldn't figure out how to get in, but he tried and continues to come around after dark (about 7pm), and instead of going out and socializing, he continues to annoy pwME and LC.

He doesn’t seem to be digging any holes, but there are signs of it tampering with the coop trying to get back in. I’m not opposed to trapping it, but he continues yelling into the void at the first sign of human activity.

Will this wolf keep coming back? Yes. I would expect it to keep coming back, he keeps checking in case there is a change that will let it get in.

We assumed he would eventually give up, but it's been 2 1/2 years.

 

[Sly Saint]

Fast forward 2 1/2 years later . . . we had a wolf (woof) problem. Our coop was pretty secure so this wolf couldn't figure out how to get in, but he tried and continues to come around after dark (about 7pm), and instead of going out and socializing, he continues to annoy pwME and LC.

He doesn’t seem to be digging any holes, but there are signs of it tampering with the coop trying to get back in. I’m not opposed to trapping it, but he continues yelling into the void at the first sign of human activity.

Will this wolf keep coming back? Yes. I would expect it to keep coming back, he keeps checking in case there is a change that will let it get in.

We assumed he would eventually give up, but it's been 2 1/2 years.

I think he is permanently stuck under an imaginary full moon.

 

[MrMagoo]

I can't help wondering whether somebody is paying him to campaign for brain training and against ME/CFS being recognised as a physical disease. Why else would someone with presumably a solid track record in his field choose to expend effort in retirement on something that he must surely know is unevidenced in any scientific sense and has such potential for harm? His statements like 'NICE bans walking' is so clearly untrue he is making a fool of himself.

We know Sharpe and White have conflicts of interest by being employed by insurance companies to diagnose ME/CFS as psychosomatic so they don't have to pay people disability. Maybe they are employing Garner too.

I suspect it’s all ego.
I’m no psychoanalyst/head dr/Fraser Crane/Freud fan but I did attend the school of life and there’s just a lot which fits.

 

[MrMagoo]

I thought that too initially, but it seems to be more than taking a position and being too stubborn to back down. The sheer level of obsession and irrationality makes me think that if I were his friend I'd be worried about his wellbeing.

Are you familiar with the tv comedy writer Graham Linehan?
His “journey” is fascinating. And very upsetting. Whether you dislike or like his viewpoint/opinion it’s a really interesting progression - the effect it’s had on his life.

 

[Chandelier]

Just got this newsletter email by Raelan:

She really seems to be doing everything to help pwME extract as much cash as humanly possible on the back of very ill and desperate people!

Ok, I think an apology from me is in order here.
I prematurely assumed that she would introduce a subscription to make more money when in fact she lowered the price to $20/month to allow everyone to profit from her vast recovery knowledge!

FFS!!! $200 per month?!​

My first Black Friday sale starts now!

Black Friday is officially here! I'm running this sale because Brain Retraining 101 is changing, and I wanted you to hear it from me before it just… happens. Here's what's going on: When I first created Brain Retraining 101, I kept the structure simple. Pay once, access forever. That worked when it was just some recorded modules and there wasn’t any community or live support available. But the program has grown and we’re about to expand it even more. We already have three live support calls every week with expert coaches who've recovered themselves (including Bjorn and Devon, who both recovered using the Brain Retraining 101 program before joining our team). And now we're adding: Stage-specific coaching calls so you get recovery support tailored to your exact situation Monthly research deep-dives so your strategies evolve as the science does Live lessons so you can learn the most important recovery insights in real time with a coach there to answer your questions. And more, including new meditations for recovery and a Recovery Buddy system. All of that takes real, ongoing investment to maintain and keep improving. So starting next week, Brain Retraining 101 will move to a subscription model. There will be an upfront investment for access to the program content, then $197/month for ongoing access to the live coaching, the expanded call structure, the community, and all the resources we're building. Before that happens, I wanted to give you one last chance to get lifetime access to Brain Retraining 101 for a one-time payment. After 11:59pm Pacific on Monday, December 1, lifetime access goes away permanently. If you've been on the fence about joining, or if you've been waiting for the "right time," this is it. Because recovery becomes so much more likely if you have support when doubt inevitably creeps in, when fear shows up, or when you're not sure how to apply what you know to your specific situation. That's what the live calls and the community are for. And that's what we're investing in to make even better for you. Join Brain Retraining 101 with lifetime access for $349 I'll be back in your inbox over the weekend with more details about what's inside the program (in case you're new here or need a refresher). But for now, I just wanted to let you know what’s changing and why.

PS: If you have questions about whether the program is right for you, just reply to this email. We’ll get back to you!

​

 

[Trish]

If the program cures you, why would you need lifetime access?

 

[MEMarge]

If the program cures you, why would you need lifetime access?

Brilliant Trish

 

[MrMagoo]

If the program cures you, why would you need lifetime access?

It’s just this sort of anti-recovery activism we’d expect from the likes of you, @Trish

 

[Turtle]

Did we miss PG reply to Rob Wust re Questionnaire regarding PEM?

"Post exertional malaise is a symptom generated in the brain. Graded exposure therapy accompanied by a brain-body explanation helps recovery. Belief it is a solely biomedical phenomenon influences unconscious beliefs, increases uncertainty and can worsen symptoms".

Thinking about this a little longer:
"Graded exposure therapy". Is PG willing to torture patients with more PEM?

 

[MrMagoo]

You have to do scuba diving and 7 mile runs alongside the brain training, otherwise you will still have the Long Covid or whatever illness he’s nominating today.

Gutted he had a whole science career where he never heard the saying “correlation is not causation”

 

[rvallee]

If the program cures you, why would you need lifetime access?

Even more absurd when it's promoted by "a single phone call cured me 100%" bro.

This is a scam. Grift. Fraud. The fact that medicine promotes nonsense like this is a low point in the history of a profession filled with low points. Whether they understand this or not while promoting the LP, the Chrysalis effect or any of the other scams out there, they are destroying the credibility of medicine so hard that the profession genuinely deserves it.