PEM: Swimming compared to other activities?

Snow Leopard

Snow Leopard

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
In another thread, I noted that swimming leads to a difference balance in motor unit recruitment compared to land based activities and tends to favour a much greater rate of oxygen consumption for a given heart rate.

I was not much of a swimmer when I was young and haven't picked it up since as I've been ill since my teenage years, so I don't have much personal experience to reflect upon.

I am curious as to how ME/CFS has affected your ability to swim, how PEM affects your ability and the pattern between swimming leading to specific PEM symptoms, as compared to walking/running/cycling?
 
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I went freshwater swimming last summer. It felt like a much more intense activity than walking, but with a blunted PEM response.

I need frequent pauses when swimming. Maybe that affects the PEM response.

Stepping out of the water is hard for the body, presumably because the water improves orthostatic tolerance and the body has to suddenly adjust to this change.

I also tend get very sleepy shortly after and need to lie down and have a nap.

Being in the water feels good.

Swimming or perhaps merely being in the water for a while improves sleep, helps to relax. Other physical activities of such intensity would make it harder to relax and would worsen sleep.
 
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Snow Leopard said:
In another thread, I noted that swimming leads to a difference balance in motor unit recruitment compared to land based activities and tends to favour a much greater rate of oxygen consumption for a given power output.
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[my bold]

Interesting. I have no knowledge of physiology, but it would be interesting to know if this is "simply" due to the likelihood that breathing cycles are probably synchronised differently with exertion cycles when swimming. Do we know if the oxygen/power ratio is similarly affected when swimmers use snorkels for instance?
 
Barry said:
[my bold]

Interesting. I have no knowledge of physiology, but it would be interesting to know if this is "simply" due to the likelihood that breathing cycles are probably synchronised differently with exertion cycles when swimming. Do we know if the oxygen/power ratio is similarly affected when swimmers use snorkels for instance?
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In a word, no. It reflects the pattern of muscle/motor unit recruitment for the activity. When conducting a CPET, the participant is necessarily breathing through a tube (whether water or land based) and this does not significantly affect ventilation at all (well, once the individual is psychologically used to the apparatus).

Also, it might be incorrect to say 'for a given power output', so I amended the first post to say heart rate which is correct.
 
I think when reviewing the effect of swimming on ME, it's important to take into account the effect of the travel, dressing and undressing, walking to the sea or pool, change in temperature depending on whether the water is warmed, etc etc. If a comparison is to be made with, say, walking, I think the person would need to do all those other activities as well, not just replicate the swimming time with walking time.

My only experiences were when my ME was mild, and I found just going through all the prep stages and getting in and out of the pool took so much out of me there was nothing left to test whether swimming was possible. But I'm not someone who likes or is good at swimming.
 
Snow Leopard said:
I am curious as to how ME/CFS has affected your ability to swim, how PEM affects your ability and the pattern between swimming leading to specific PEM symptoms, as compared to walking/running/cycling?
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1) Much less power/speed, slightly less endurance;

2) Less pain, less PEM for apparently more effort;

3) Only comparing against daily living, as unable to walk or cycle well enough to measure.


No knowledge of physiology, but:

1) Prone/supine position during effort may have small effect;

2) Low temperature also – pools kept cool b/c swimming in warm water drains energy;

3) Less sure about water pressure on vascular system b/c of high position in water, but could be a factor.


@Trish makes good points about associated effort. I swim well, but need hoist to get out.
 
strategist said:
I need frequent pauses when swimming. Maybe that affects the PEM response.
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I swam for most of the first five years when I was mildly affected but undiagnosed. I eventually got up to 1000 metres four times a week (or 6 miles/10 km cycling) which I kept up religiously for over a year (getting my exercise was pretty much the most important thing in my life). Anyway, I found I needed to rest for around 30 seconds after each 50 metres (2 lengths).
 
Any type of exercise (including slow walking) in temperatures above 27 C would negatively affect my ANS thus making PEM feel worse. Freezing temperatures are ok unless there's a cold wind blowing in my face and slippery snow which leaves me out of breath and more fatigued.
 
I get headache soon when I try to swim and also surprisingly exhausted. My heart begins to bump very soon. Maybe it's the chloride, I'm not sure. But fresh or cold water makes me freeze immediately, so wild water isn't a choice either. So swimming is a no go for me. I swam a lot during my childhood, btw.
 
I can't even have a bath now, warm water makes me so dopey. It's a shame, because I used to enjoy wallowing in a hot bath, but I haven't had one in the last 7 years, just not worth the risk. As for swimming, in my first year of ME I managed a very leisurely swim in the sea in Italy and enjoyed it, but that was a week when I was doing absolutely nothing else, and I haven't tried since then. As for public swimming pools, I had been going off the idea of splashing around in other people's pee for some time even before I got ME.

Walking slowly in the fresh air is best for me. I try to go for at least one 2-hour slow walk per week now, and always feel much better for the fews days afterwards. It's been 7 years since a bit of exercise made me feel better the next day instead of worse.
 
I'm too sick to swim at all now, but for many years I could tolerate swimming better than any other aerobic activity. Swimming for 10 minutes or so caused far less fatigue or PEM than walking for 10 minutes. Sometimes I would even feel *good* afterward (a shockingly rare experience!). I'm not sure if it was being in the water, being horizontal, or what, but it was noticeably different.
 
Swimming pools tend to be loud, echoey, out of focus, cold, and wet.

With random, yelling, moving, obstructions.

As such it's not somewhere I would consider going, and haven't since I was a child (when in order to minimise the overload I used to spend a lot of time sitting on the bottom in the deep end - I could hold my breath for several minutes).

Last time I went to a pool was several years later, when I was about 19/20.

I really did not enjoy the experience so haven't been to one since.

Even without ME they are hellish places as far as I am concerned.

Hundreds of millions of years of evolution to get out of the damn water, and what do people do.....
 
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