Persistent fatigue induced by interferon-alpha: A novel, inflammation-based, proxy model of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, 2018, Pariante et al

Arnie Pye said:
The BBC has an article on this paper, and it also has a comments section open for it :
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Thanks, I forgot about the comments section, which is full of nutters. Must copy this exchange here before it's removed:

22. Posted by doorkeeper
on 4 hours ago
I had full blown ME which I got rid of by radically changing my diet and using intermittent fasting. Along the way I also lost 8 stone but the increased energy levels happened well before the weight loss was significant. Two years later I am half the person I was but I feel thirty years younger.
I advise anyone with it to try intermittent fasting and to stop eating non vegetable carbohydrates.
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26. Posted by nonofyours
on 53 minutes ago
22. Posted by doorkeeper THEN YOU DIDNT HAVE ME/CFS. I SUGGEST YOU HAD FAT GLUTTONOUS PIE WHOLE DISEASE. IM A PERFECT SIZE 10 AND STILL HAVE ME
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Probably the next thing that will happen is that they bring CBT/GET into this, according to the idea that inflammation triggers it but the psyche perpetuates it. That could explain why the SMC is promoting this so heavily, when it normally only promotes CBT/GET junk science. Wessely is the CFS expert at the SMC.
 
strategist said:
Probably the next thing that will happen is that they bring CBT/GET into this, according to the idea that inflammation triggers it but the psyche perpetuates it. That could explain why the SMC is promoting this so heavily, when it normally only promotes CBT/GET junk science. Wessely is the CFS expert at the SMC.
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Or maybe a sign that he is starting to sing a different tune (I realise that this is probably way too optimistic, but, hey, who knows?)
 
Dolphin said:
Tweet was deleted. It was just somebody from BBC World Service looking to interview Pariante.
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Weird though, because when I first looked at lunch time it most definitely said the account was suspended. Only when I looked a short while ago did it say the page was deleted.
 
Robert 1973 said:
I'm not sure that it necessarily contradicts the CBT model of CFS.
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In Belgium psychodynamic oriented psychiatrists have elaborated the CBT model for ME/CFS. They say the triggering event is no coincidence because ME/CFS patients were overworking themselves. And they were overdoing it because they are such perfectionists which is in itself a consequence of the childhood abuse they have suffered. For example their mother might have thought ther're worthless so ME/CFS patients work hard to obtain parental approval through achievements. That’s why they constantly overdo it, which weakens their body and immune system until they get an infection that forces them into full bedrest. At that point, achievements are no longer possible and that’s when the psyche goes afoul. Some may get depression but most will think there’s some unknown disease holding them back – a thought that preserves their self-worth. To treat such a patient you can’t just use CBT to change their unhelpful thoughts about ongoing infection or exercise, you also have to challenge their perfectionist tendencies otherwise the scenario will repeat itself. That’s sort of the story they are selling. It sounds like a fairy tale, but it’s taken seriously here in Belgium. (EDIT: there's a lot of emphasis on premorbid psychosocial factors in this version).

I think it’s also worth pointing out that Perainte has published a review on “Childhood stressors in the development of fatigue syndromes.” It concluded that “Most studies across the literature consistently show that there is a strong association between experiences of childhood stressors and the presence of CFS.”
[EDIT: Parainte's introduction on twitter reads: "I want to know why stress makes us ill."]


I also think the Russel et al. study tested for depression 12 weeks after IFN-α treatment, but reported null results. That’s similar to the postinfectious CFS studies.
So I do think these studies contradict many elements of the CBT model for CF and CFS.
 
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JaimeS said:
Cheshire, where was that quote found?
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I was made aware of this article by a journalist friend, who had received an invitation to attend a press briefing for the article at the Science Media Centre in London on Friday 14 December. By a complete coincidence I was in London that morning and decided to go along. I was allowed in without a press pass after identifying myself as a researcher, but when I tried to get clarification of a point that had been made during the presentation I was told that only reporters (i.e., not researchers or other members of the public) were allowed to ask questions.
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https://steamtraen.blogspot.com/2018/12/have-scientists-found-explanation-for.html
 
The UK scientific establishment may be incapable of seriously investigating ME/CFS as long as CBT/GET lobby has so much influence.

For example, in this study one can see the conflation of single symptom with a syndrome. This is something that originated from the CBT/GET lobby and the result is that the study tells us nothing about ME/CFS. Presumably Pariante it just aligning himself with local expert opinion and that means CFS is viewed as substantially equivalent to persistent fatigue (no matter how mild).
 
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This story is now the first story on CNN's home page in the "Top Stories" column, complete with picture. [Edit: See @rvallee's post below for the captured front page.] The caption is "Your immune system may be why you're tired all the time", but the main article is entitled "Chronic fatigue syndrome may be due to an overactive immune system, study finds". The article paints a good picture of both the study and the disease, with not even a hint that there may be psychological factors involved. The last section of the article gives a good taste of the article's general tone:
'Blackness descending'

Skye Wheeler, a 19-year old from Cambourne, Cornwall, is housebound due to her chronic fatigue syndrome.

"You can't get dressed and ready for the day without a blackness descending over your eyes. You can't carry a conversation, let alone even speak," she explained in a statement.

"The bottom of the line is that there is no energy there in the first place to channel through your body to all the right places. The only thing you can do is lie and exist," she said.

The condition affects many body systems, and people who have chronic fatigue syndrome feel debilitating pain and fatigue because their body and brain are unable to recover after even small efforts.

About a quarter of people affected by the condition are severe cases, meaning they are bedridden, house-bound or wheelchair-bound at some point in their illness, according to the ME Association.
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Jonathan Edwards said:
That the research programme is an intelligent attempt to use interferon induced fatigue to inform general approaches to ME.
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I would say that it might be an intelligent attempt to use interferon induced fatigue to inform general approaches to prolonged fatigue. I don't see why they automatically feel the need or the authority to draw specific comparisons with ME, other than in a highly speculative manner, since we have no idea at all if this "fatigue" resembles what ME patients experience or if any of the other cardinal symptoms are present.
 
"......They suggest that some people who are depressed may actually
be suffering from an over-heated immune system........"

I wonder what this 201 article brings to this thread. i have the magasine somewhere....

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg17022954-600-a-mind-under-siege/

"16 June 2001

A mind under siege
By Phyllida Brown

A FIFTY-year-old woman living in Japan is infected with a potentially fatal
virus, hepatitis C. Doctors bombard her body with a powerful drug to boost her
immune response. The drug beats back the virus, but has horrific side effects.
She becomes inexplicably moody, rapidly sinking into a depression so savage that
the woman douses herself in oil and sets herself alight.

Fortunately, her suicide attempt fails and she recovers fully. But the
woman’s terrifying experience is not unique. Over the past few years, there’s
been a steady trickle of bizarre reports of people becoming suicidal after
taking alpha interferon and interleukin-2, two popular immune-boosting drugs.
Hundreds of others have become seriously depressed.

But here’s the rub. Patients and doctors are not rounding on the makers of
these drugs. Instead, everyone tends to think the psychological side effects are
a price worth paying for drugs that can combat cancer, hepatitis and other
life-threatening infections. Indeed even the terrible suicidal urges themselves
are now turning out to have a silver lining. They are awakening interest in one
of the most promising new avenues in depression research since Prozac left the
labs.

Most of us associate depression with being run down and having poor immunity
to infections. The startling side effects of the immune-boosting drugs turn that
notion on its head. They suggest that some people who are depressed may actually
be suffering from an over-heated immune system, and that damping down
inflammation could offer a brand new way to treat routine clinical
depression—while making billions for the pharmaceuticals industry into the
bargain. It’s a theory that recasts depression—one … ( subscription)
 
zzz said:
This story is now the first story on CNN's home page in the "Top Stories" column, complete with picture. The caption is "Your immune system may be why you're tired all the time", but the main article is entitled "Chronic fatigue syndrome may be due to an overactive immune system, study finds". The article paints a good picture of both the study and the disease, with not even a hint that there may be psychological factors involved. The last section of the article gives a good taste of the article's general tone:
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That is quite the media blitz. It's one thing to have media coverage, but for it to be so prominently placed given the onslaught of huge (and very bad) news overloading the news in the US lately. In case you're not paying attention, things are going from worse to worst for Trump and the far-reaching consequences are starting to come into focus (adding to this an almost inevitable economic crash that is gaining steam every day and has everyone on edge).

Point being: there is A LOT of major news happening right now in the US, all of it very bad, so being in the actual top stories right now is surprising, to say the least. It's definitely kind of good news to speak of a possible medical mystery progressing (no matter the actual significance or outcome). I guess someone wanted some good news for a change.

I was about to post this and you beat me to it but whatever, I made a screenshot just because it's almost hard to believe given how contemptuous attitudes generally are. I don't know where this will all end but it's a huge change of perspective to have a discussion over this disease. It's definitely nothing groundbreaking by itself but that there is media coverage of actual biomedical findings is still an overall positive. I hope so, anyway.

Still a bit suspicious that this is getting so hyped, but this is a far cry from "dance, monkey, dance" being pushed as a cure.

CNN-KCL CFS study front page.png
 
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