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Simon Wessely Didn't Want His e-Mail On A Blog - Here It Is on Hole Ousia

Discussion in 'Other health news and research' started by Melanie, Jul 14, 2018.

  1. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
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    I think it means that what we have seen in the ME world is going on throughout psychiatry and all the pigs with their snouts in the trough are just about to tip the swill all over themselves.
     
    Joel, andypants, ukxmrv and 36 others like this.
  2. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    13,145
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    just snorted my cuppa again - JE shredding the psychiatric establishment :rofl:
     
  3. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    5,234
    :D

    Speculation about what really drives them is strangely fascinating. It reminded me that this group wanted to make medicine less biological and more psychosocial, but maybe that's just ideology at the service of financial interests.

    They assumed all this "knowledge" about psychogenic disorders, somatization, secondary gains, illness beliefs determining disability, etc was true and then tried to come up with ways to use it treat people. First was ME, then MUS. It turns out that it doesn't work well, if at all. That they use methodology likely to yield false positives is a problem but this all started with their belief that it was somehow psychosomatic (Wessely's paper in 1989). If we applied high standards of evidence to the body of knowledge about "psychosomatic" conditions, how much would be left? Probably not much.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
  4. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    4,602
    At least we now know why he gives us that sinking feeling. He gives himself it, too.
     
  5. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    Location:
    Germany
    He was obviously dictating the email from his private emergency submarine on the good ship PACE, and he didn't realise that the voice to text software was still running after he'd finished dictating his email.
     
  6. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Location:
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    I thought this thread deserved a picture of a sinking weasel, but sadly the internet let me down.

    The remainder of this post has nothing to do with this thread.

    In looking for the aforementioned picture, I came across this one, and thought it was hilarious :

    [​IMG]

    Sorry for the interruption...
     
  7. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,678
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Emsho

    Emsho Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    27
    I think this might be related to the following, i.e the problems people with depression have with Wessely and co

    I was contacted by a patient group in Scotland after the petition, they had a petition going on at the same time which focusses on drug dependence and withdrawal issues associated with prescribed drugs such as benzodiazepines + antidepressants. Basically people were having horrible side-effects from taking these “safe medications” prescribed by their doctors. There is more information in the background info in their petition: http://www.parliament.scot/gettinginvolved/petitions/PE01600-PE01699/PE01651_BackgroundInfo.aspx

    Here is information on this from the British Medical Association who state:
    “Prescribing of psychoactive drugs is a major clinical activity and a key therapeutic tool for influencing the health of patients. But often their use can lead to a patient becoming dependent or suffering withdrawal symptoms.
    In the absence of robust data, we do not know the true scale and extent of the problem across the UK. However, the evidence and insight presented to us by many charity and support groups shows that it is substantial.”: https://www.bma.org.uk/collective-v...th/prescribed-drugs-dependence-and-withdrawal

    About a hundred people have submitted patient testimonies to the Scottish Parliament, which can be read here: http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651

    I’ve been told that patients’ concerns are frequently dismissed and they are being diagnosed with somatic/functional disorders or Medically Unexplained Syndrome (MUS). The PACE trial (certainly in Scotland) is being used as evidence for MUS, and for their symptoms being ignored.

    The researchers who the Scottish patient group have mentioned are causing them trouble may sound familiar, so far they’ve talked about Wessely, Chalder, Carson and Stone (the last two will be more familiar to Scottish folks, they’re our roadblock for ME progress here).
     
    Joel, inox, Jan and 27 others like this.
  9. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    33C8ED1B-38D1-418C-A883-D9AA68CDADED.jpeg

    I’m reminded of heron v weasel.....it doesn’t end well for the weasel...but I guess sometimes they don’t know when to stop
     
  10. Sbag

    Sbag Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    inox, Luther Blissett, janice and 4 others like this.
  11. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is so simple - eMails from a business account are never private! (Unless they're encoded.) Even if private things are written. This is such a cheap excuse, it sounds so sandpit-like, "Nooo, you are so mean - baaah!" :barefeet:

    Edit: Just thought about it - even if a business mail is encoded it probably won't be considered private...
     
    Joel, inox, Luther Blissett and 5 others like this.
  12. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There is one thing in getting old - hiding your "bad habits" gets increasingly difficult.

    Maybe Wessely is getting old...
     
    alktipping and Melanie like this.
  13. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think the amount of porkies you tell is the main factor ...must be difficult to remember by now
     
    alktipping and Melanie like this.
  14. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, this is something doctors don't like to talk about. After reading some papers and professional information (provided by the drug company and downloadable from its homepage) I ended on forums where people talked about their experiences with psychopharmaceuticals, I knew I shall never take something like that. The stories were just horrible.
     
  15. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Sink ... ?

    https://www.bmj.com/content/358/bmj.j4305
    Maybe with his sign off as "Sink" he was expressing further despair at yet more transparency putting the rights of patients before the 'rights' of his own patience?
     
    MEMarge, Inara, Gecko and 4 others like this.
  16. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes. A clique of empire builders seeing their dreams of empire crumbling before their eyes. Truth being the weapon they have no real defence against; bluster no longer working for them.
     
    MEMarge, alktipping, Melanie and 2 others like this.
  17. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

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    2,918
    I just read Peter Gordon's letter to the Scottish Parliament here, and it gives some background to Gordon's concerns. They are largely about the overprescription of antidepressants and other psychoactive drugs in psychiatry and general medicine. He seems to be an advocate for more use of talking therapy and less of medication, especially in depression.

    So his beef with Wessely is confusing, because Wessely does not seem heavily in bed with pharma, and he's obviously very into talking therapies, as evidenced by his huge personal investment in PACE. Perhaps Gordon thinks that in signing this letter to NICE, Wessely is pandering to the interests of psychiatrists more generally, hoping to give them greater freedom to prescribe what they want. And that might well be true, because Wessely is a political animal, and I guess, what serves psychiatrists also serves his own interests in being president of the RCP and his need to be a generally important person in UK medicine.

    So the only issues that overlap with ours seem to involve Wessely's conduct as a person - his motivations (which are consistently political and have little to do with patient welfare) and the way in which he tries to control the narrative and manipulate people to get his own way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
  18. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    3,819
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    Simon Wessely's letter requesting a fresh review seemed reasonable.
    BMJ's news article not stating any of the reasons why the review was requested was odd and disappointing.
    Peter Gordon's request for transparency seemed reasonable.
    Simon Wessely's unwillingness to provide details was odd and disappointing.
    Peter Gordon then posting the private email exchange is also strange and it is likely there was some sort of prior provocation between them before this current exchange.
     
  19. Robert 1973

    Robert 1973 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    1,281
    Location:
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    The following message has now been posted below the blog by snow-leavis aka Peter Gordon who write the blog:

    Meanwhile I thought I would bring the blog to Mike Godwin’s attention:
    https://twitter.com/user/status/1018592118053404677
     
    Joel, inox, Jan and 24 others like this.
  20. TiredSam

    TiredSam Committee Member

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    Location:
    Germany
    Welcome Peter Gordon, I have just processed your membership and you can post here now if you like.
     
    Joel, inox, MEMarge and 27 others like this.

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