Threats, cyber-bullying now targeting scientists who study Chronic Fatigue Syndrome… when will free speech about science be allowed to exist again?

rvallee

rvallee

Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I hesitate to put "not a recommendation" because the article is so bad it almost makes some kind of other point than the PR campaign meant. When you have allies like Natural News and Rod Liddle...

It's completely pointless to read for the substance, it almost reads like a parody. I particularly like how some of the distorted information got morphed further, from Reuters' article trying to imply Sharpe and his colleagues were some of the few to the NN article basically saying that they are literally the only ones researching at all and keep getting harassed.

There is a confusing point about how it's "the pharma establishment" that is resisting Sharpe et al's work, which is just hard to reconcile with the whole "patient activists". It's not even clear who they think they're blaming here.

Basically it's about as all over the place as Sharpe's work is, you can conclude anything you prefer out of it and most of it is made-up.

https://www.naturalnews.com/2019-03...tists-who-study-chronic-fatigue-syndrome.html (archive.is link: https://archive.fo/ainpk)
 
chrisb said:
Why do psychiatrists bother fighting with us when there are so many people in need of their services?
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The Domino Theory? We are their line in the sand? We are their toe-hold into the nascent MUS market and they are fearful of the import of losing here.

Edit to add: I think legacy concerns also play a role in some of the individuals who have been around a long time.
 
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Wow, yes bizarre. A new wrinkle in this scenario, the "fascist medical establishment"?

I don't recall the original Reuters' article talking about a fascist medical establishment.

Do you remember the telephone game? Kid number one whispers a sentence in the ear of kid #2, who passes it along in the same manner to kid #3, and so on. What comes out at the end often bears little to no relation to the original sentence.
 
chrisb said:
Why do psychiatrists bother fighting with us when there are so many people in need of their services?
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I agree with @duncan. Line in the sand. And legacy.

I would say Steve Topple in the thread: https://www.s4me.info/threads/steve...nst-chronically-ill-and-disabled-people.8642/ is onto something in his mention of chemical companies supporting the SMC. Some psychiatrists have supported the idea that industry, especially those that some suspect or know are polluting our environment, and therefore humans and animals, is safe; e.g. Camelford.

If memory serves, some of the PS workers have been employed by the chemical industry.

Links to illness caused by industry may be denied by some of these practitioners. Environmental medicine techniques have helped some with ME, as per Dr. Nancy Klimas' work, and others.

Letting go of ME as a psychological condition further paves the way for increased funding to find biological causes, whatever form they may take.
 
Now I see - it is actually the establishment of Simon Wessely and his pal Godwin who are using this David T guy as their front man for vilifying their own chums so that they can be martyrs to the cause?

No, I think there was one step in there that did not quite fit - was it Godwin? Not sure.
Isn't there some computer that generates random variations on an idea and splurges it out like this?
Is this site just a bot?
Not sure. Hm.
 
chrisb said:
Why do psychiatrists bother fighting with us when there are so many people in need of their services?
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That's one thing that really saddens me. So many people with actual psychiatric problems could be helped and instead face shortage of services and research because those resources are wasted on us and MUS.

There is a huge demand for those services. The response instead has been to flood mental health services with people who need standard medical care, degrading services to those who could actually benefit.

It seriously manages to harm everyone involved, including the researchers, whose career will be a footnote of errors, and those delivery the services, who must feel enormous frustration at "bastards" that "don't want to get better". It must lead to very low morale and discourage people from staying, creating long-term impacts.

Complete waste.
 
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Skycloud said:
Bottom of the item - it's really the fascist medical establishment suppressing Sharpe's work. What a bizarre article.
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Ha! Like I said, I have no idea who they think they're attacking, it's all over the place. Sharpe and Wessely are the "medical establishment" and although I think that they are not very competent and their career has been harmful overall, they are certainly not fascist by any stretch.
 
@rvallee

Science may one day find that a lot more "psychological conditions" have a biological cause - as has already happened with many illnesses as we know. There is a thread on here about schizophrenia and something biological - can't recall specifics.

Looks like the PS workers are increasingly worried about losing more of their bailiwick.
 
As is my way, I have archived it on the wayback machine (mostly because I know how to actually do that).
And for the giggle factor. So this is what it's come to. This dude is definitely in his own little world on this subject.
 
For those who haven't encountered "Natural News" before (or don't remember):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_News

Natural News (formerly NewsTarget, which is now a separate sister site) is a conspiracy website that sells various dietary supplements, and promotes alternative medicine, controversial nutrition and health claims,[3] fake news,[4][5][6] and various conspiracy theories,[7] such as "chemtrails",[2] chemophobic claims (including the purported dangers of fluoride in drinking water,[8] [….]
and purported health problems caused by allegedly "toxic" ingredients in vaccines,[3][2] including the now-discredited link to autism.[9]
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DokaGirl said:
@rvallee

Science may one day find that a lot more "psychological conditions" have a biological cause - as has already happened with many illnesses as we know. There is a thread on here about schizophrenia and something biological - can't recall specifics.

Looks like the PS workers are increasingly worried about losing more of their bailiwick.
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Hasn’t it long been recognised that many psychiatric conditions have underlying medical cause, that’s why psychiatrists are drs and use medication to treat brain chemistry in bi polar etc as opposed to psychologists who just use talking therapy and so on to help people with say the emotional impact of a difficult upbringing.
I thought that on mental vs physical it was more about how you presented, not whether a dysfunctional or damaged Brain was involved so deep brain stimulation seems helpful in Parkinson’s and OCD but OCD, psychiatric, primarily causes the abnormal cognitions and behaviour whilst Parkinson’s, neurology, affects movement primarily. Therefore on that criteria, ME with no clear mood or behaviour or thought abnormalities (cognitive dysfunction different) but with physical pain, movement issues, malaise, regardless of brain involvement, or cause of symptoms is physical

Whilst there’s obviously overlap, with some conditions eventually causing both, I think the MH PH divide basically useful to separate and specialise in, and useful for us to convey the general nature of our complaint. I also welcome the focus on MH support for people with LTCs, I just don’t think those people with LTCs would welcome ONLY MH support.
 
DokaGirl said:
Science may one day find that a lot more "psychological conditions" have a biological cause - as has already happened with many illnesses as we know. There is a thread on here about schizophrenia and something biological - can't recall specifics.
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I have come across a few people online who were diagnosed with thyroid disease (over active or under active) and psychiatric disorders who were eventually "cured" of their mental health problems by having their thyroid properly treated. Some of the conditions that vanished were bipolar disorder, paranoia, delusions, hallucinations, acute psychosis, acute mania, post-partum psychosis, depression, anxiety, borderline personality disorder. The list is unlikely to be complete.
 
@Cinders66


I was thinking about diseases like stomach ulcers and MS that used to be thought of as psychological.

Yes, psychiatric diseases are thought to have chemical imbalances.

By "psychological condition" I meant illnesses that are thought to be in the
imagination, or used to be thought of this way.

I would have to go back to the thread on schizophrenia to see what it said.

ETA: We should ask what's underlying the chemical imbalances. They have to have a cause. Psychiatric meds aren't the entire answer. Especially with their side effects.

ETA #2: This is the forum thread on the microbiome of pwschizophrenia and mice. I understand that fecal transplants from people in this study suffering from schizophrenia to mice caused the mice to behave differently. It would be interesting if a disordered microbiome was an underlying cause of schizophrenia. One could ask if the current day drugs for this illness address a disordered microbioime. If not, and it's found this gut disorder is one of the causal factors in this disease, then what psychiatrists have been using for treatment may not be an appropriate biomedical treatment for this condition: https://www.s4me.info/threads/the-g...aba-cycle-in-mice-2019-peng-zheng-et-al.8471/
 
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Arnie Pye said:
I have come across a few people online who were diagnosed with thyroid disease (over active or under active) and psychiatric disorders who were eventually "cured" of their mental health problems by having their thyroid properly treated. Some of the conditions that
vanished were bipolar disorder, paranoia, delusions, hallucinations, acute psychosis, acute mania, post-partum psychosis, depression, anxiety, borderline personality
disorder. The list is unlikely to be
complete.
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Wow. They were diagnosed with a thyroid disorder, and a psychological or psychiatric disorder - both? Then the mental health disorder cleared up with proper thyroid treatment? Wow again. I know depression can be caused by hypothyroidism. And I knew someone who was hyperthyroid for a short while. They seemed rather frenetic, jumpy, anxious. That all cleared up once the thyroid problem got under control.

The thyroid is so very important. Looks like physicians jumped to conclusions about these people's mental health. I don't think medical education covers how important the thyroid can be.

We've seen a fair bit of misdiagnosis discussed on this forum. Would be interesting to have a list.
 
Cinders66 said:
that’s why psychiatrists are drs and use medication to treat brain chemistry in bi polar etc
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Shaky theory.

Cinders66 said:
as opposed to psychologists who just use talking therapy and so on to help people with say the emotional impact of a difficult upbringing.
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Even shakier theory.

This is in part why there is an internal schism in psych...and an ongoing replication crisis...and a reputation increasingly under assault.

It doesn't help that it's pretty much accepted that if the State needs a go-to man....
 
@Arnie Pye

Several years ago, an elderly family member told me a story about a neighbour. Many in the small rural town where my relative used to live thought this neighbour was lazy and slovenly. Once the traveling doctor diagnosed and treated this person with thyroid meds they were like a different person.
 
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