Warnings against dangerous Miracle Mineral Solution (bleach, chlorine dioxide)

[Hip]

Do you have the drug name, is it the same chemicals in comparable quantities ?

The chlorite-based drug licensed to treat radiation cystitis, diabetic foot ulcers and wound healing is called WF10. WF10 is a 10% solution of the chemical tetrachlorodecaoxide, which looking at its chemical structure I think may be a molecular complex of four chlorite ions.

In terms of dosing, some calculations I did (hopefully correctly) in this post indicate that the daily WF10 intravenous dose is equivalent to about 20 drops of Miracle Mineral Solution (which is quite a high dose of MMS, since people normally start with one drop of MMS daily).

However, WF10 is only given for short periods of around a week, so that makes it difficult to compare MMS to WF10 on safety grounds, since MMS is often taken on a long term basis for months or years. For example, if there were some carcinogenic effects from MMS and WF10, those effects would normally be proportional to the length of usage and exposure, as with all carcinogens (eg, smoking cigarettes for one month is a much lower cancer risk than smoking for decades).

 

[adambeyoncelowe]

The chlorite-based drug licensed to treat radiation cystitis, diabetic foot ulcers and wound healing is called WF10. WF10 is a 10% solution of the chemical tetrachlorodecaoxide, which looking at its chemical structure I think may be a molecular complex of four chlorite ions.

In terms of dosing, some calculations I did (hopefully correctly) in this post indicate that the daily WF10 intravenous dose is equivalent to about 20 drops of Miracle Mineral Solution (which is quite a high dose of MMS, since people normally start with one drop of MMS daily).

However, WF10 is only given for short periods of around a week, so that makes it difficult to compare MMS to WF10 on safety grounds, since MMS is often taken on a long term basis for months or years. For example, if there were some carcinogenic effects from MMS and WF10, those effects would normally be proportional to the length of usage and exposure, as with all carcinogens (eg, smoking cigarettes for one month is a much lower cancer risk than smoking for decades).

As I understand it, WF10 is delivered by specialists via IV and not orally at home or by quacks. Either way, this should not be experimentally taken by patients.

 

[Barry]

As I understand it, WF10 is delivered by specialists via IV and not orally at home or by quacks. Either way, this should not be experimentally taken by patients.

Exactly. Much more controlled administering of it. There are masses of prescription drugs that would be dangerous if their active ingredients were just peddled willy nilly by get-rich-quick quacks.

 

[wdb]

The chlorite-based drug licensed to treat radiation cystitis, diabetic foot ulcers and wound healing is called WF10. WF10 is a 10% solution of the chemical tetrachlorodecaoxide, which looking at its chemical structure I think may be a molecular complex of four chlorite ions.

Would you mind explaining to a non-chemist why Tetrachlorodecaoxide (Cl₄H₂O₁₁) is in effect the same as Chlorine dioxide (ClO₂) ? To me that sounds like saying carbon dioxide is in effect the same as carbon monoxide.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Yet what is in effect Miracle Mineral Solution is also sold as an injectable pharmaceutical drug which is licensed for use in the treatment of radiation cystitis, diabetic foot ulcers, and wound healing (due to its immunomodulatory macrophage activating effects).

Is WF10 actually licensed anywhere other than Thailand?

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

From what I can glean from PubMed so far WF10 looks to be as much as quack remedy as MMS. No trials have been published in the last 8 years. The study on diabetic feet does not look to have been blinded. I can see nothing about licensing outside Thailand so far.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Would you mind explaining to a non-chemist why Tetrachlorodecaoxide (Cl₄H₂O₁₁) is in effect the same as Chlorine dioxide (ClO₂) ? To me that sounds like saying carbon dioxide is in effect the same as carbon monoxide.

The descriptions of tetrachlorodecaoxide (Cl₄H₂O₁₁----)say it is chlorite containing. As far as I can see it has a structure rather similar to a triphosphate where some of the oxygens surrounding the central donor atom (Cl or P) act as bridges between two. The redox state should be the same as ClO2 because it adds up to 4xClO2 (Cl4O8) plus H2O (redox neutral) plus O2---- (redox neutral but basic oxide ions). That would make it a slightly stronger oxidising agent than chlorite (ClO2-) but not as strong as chlorate.

I would have thought the bottom line is that both MMS and WF10 will act as oxidising and potentially chlorinating agents. On the other hand oxidising your oesophagus and oxidising your venous blood are likely to be rather different exercises. WF10 may, like hypochlorite (or 'Milton'), be an effective wound sterilising agent by topical application, although I doubt anyone uses that sort of thing now. The idea of giving it IV seems to me completely crazy, which is maybe why it only seems to be licensed in Thailand.

 

[adambeyoncelowe]

The descriptions of tetrachlorodecaoxide (Cl₄H₂O₁₁----)say it is chlorite containing. As far as I can see it has a structure rather similar to a triphosphate where some of the oxygens surrounding the central donor atom (Cl or P) act as bridges between two. The redox state should be the same as ClO2 because it adds up to 4xClO2 (Cl4O8) plus H2O (redox neutral) plus O2---- (redox neutral but basic oxide ions). That would make it a slightly stronger oxidising agent than chlorite (ClO2-) but not as strong as chlorate.

I would have thought the bottom line is that both MMS and WF10 will act as oxidising and potentially chlorinating agents. On the other hand oxidising your oesophagus and oxidising your venous blood are likely to be rather different exercises. WF10 may, like hypochlorite (or 'Milton'), be an effective wound sterilising agent by topical application, although I doubt anyone uses that sort of thing now. The idea of giving it IV seems to me completely crazy, which is maybe why it only seems to be licensed in Thailand.

Good to know. It's scary to think people take this stuff!

 

[Saz94]

Good to know. It's scary to think people take this stuff!

What's worse is that some parents give it to their autistic children because they believe it will "cure autism".

Autistic advocates such as Emma Dalmayne have done important work in campaigning against MMS.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/13/fake-cures-autism-prove-deadly

 

[Mij]

British man arrested for poisoning Ugandans.

 

[Mij]

Canadian man convicted of poisoning Canadians.

 

[Hip]

Would you mind explaining to a non-chemist why Tetrachlorodecaoxide (Cl₄H₂O₁₁) is in effect the same as Chlorine dioxide (ClO₂) ? To me that sounds like saying carbon dioxide is in effect the same as carbon monoxide.

I could not find any info on how tetrachlorodecaoxide (TCDO) is metabolized in the body, but TCDO is also used as a swimming pool disinfectant, where I read it breaks down into chlorine dioxide, so my guess is this also happens when TCDO is delivered intravenously. So I think TCDO may be like a pro-drug for chlorine dioxide: delivering chlorine dioxide to the body.

The reason why you cannot use chlorine dioxide directly is because ClO2 rapidly breaks down in solution, so it's shelf life would be far too short.

From what I can glean from PubMed so far WF10 looks to be as much as quack remedy as MMS. No trials have been published in the last 8 years. The study on diabetic feet does not look to have been blinded. I can see nothing about licensing outside Thailand so far.

I think it is only Thailand, but the pharmaceutical company which developed WF10 is Oxo Chemie in Switzerland. WF10 is sold under trade names of Immunokine and Macrokine among others.

Oxo Chemie is now owned by Canadian company Nuvo Research, who continued to test WF10 in clinical trials for conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis — see this 2013 paper. Though I believe WF10 ultimately failed to show efficacy for RA in phase II.

More recent trials for a similar/identical chlorite-based drug named NP001 were conducted by US pharmaceutical company Neuraltus Pharmaceuticals. In these trials, NP001 was tested as a treatment for rheumatoid arthritis and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis — see this 2017 paper. Again though, it ultimately failed to show efficacy for ALS in phase II.



Nevertheless TCDO (and probably chlorine dioxide) possesses a number of immunomodulatory actions, which may have disease modifying effects.

Immunomodulatory effects of the chlorite-based drus WF10 and NP001:

• WF10 (Immunokine) has modulatory effects on both the innate and adaptive immune system. 1
  
• WF10 stimulates innate immune functions, while inhibiting adaptive immune functions. 1
  
• WF10 down-regulates antigen presentation, which may be important in the management of chronic inflammatory disease. 1
• WF10 stimulates natural killer cell cytotoxicity against malignant cells, which enhances immunity against tumors. 1
• WF10 inhibits serial killing by cytotoxic T-cells. 1
• WF10 causes "profound changes in macrophage function and activation of gene expression, and appears to downregulate inappropriate immunological activation." 1
  
• In healing wounds, topical Oxovasin (a diluted form of WF10) stimulates wound macrophages. 1
• NP001 "converts pro-inflammatory (activated) macrophages, a type of white blood cell, to their anti-inflammatory state." 1
• NP001 mechanism of action: "Within monocytes/macrophages, chlorite is converted into taurine chloramine that downregulates nuclear factor κB (NF-κB) expression and inhibits production of proinflammatory cytokine IL-1β." 1

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Nevertheless chlorine dioxide possesses a number of immunomodulatory actions, which may have disease modifying effects.

Immunomodulatory effects of the chlorite-based drus WF10 and NP001:

Sorry, but I think this is joke science. It is easy these days to publish something that sounds like real science but is in fact nonsensical. No doubt oxidising agents like this will do all sorts of interesting things to cells in culture or animal experiments but it is totally implausible that it has any relevance to human disease.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Oxo Chemie is now owned by Canadian company Nuvo Research, who continued to test WF10 in clinical trials for conditions such as rheumatoid arthritis — see this 2013 paper. Though I believe WF10 ultimately failed to show efficacy for RA in phase II.

This was not a clinical trial for rheumatoid arthritis. It was a study in mice with an arthritis that has nothing to do with RA. Typical junk science as far as I can see.

The sad thing is that there seem to be people out there prepared to take this sort of thing seriously and invest.

 

[Cheshire]

Nevertheless TCDO (and probably chlorine dioxide) possesses a number of immunomodulatory actions, which may have disease modifying effects.

Immunomodulatory effects of the chlorite-based drus WF10 and NP001:

• WF10 (Immunokine) has modulatory effects on both the innate and adaptive immune system. 1
  
• WF10 stimulates innate immune functions, while inhibiting adaptive immune functions. 1
  
• WF10 down-regulates antigen presentation, which may be important in the management of chronic inflammatory disease. 1
• WF10 stimulates natural killer cell cytotoxicity against malignant cells, which enhances immunity against tumors. 1
• WF10 inhibits serial killing by cytotoxic T-cells. 1
• WF10 causes "profound changes in macrophage function and activation of gene expression, and appears to downregulate inappropriate immunological activation." 1
  
• In healing wounds, topical Oxovasin (a diluted form of WF10) stimulates wound macrophages. 1
• NP001 "converts pro-inflammatory (activated) macrophages, a type of white blood cell, to their anti-inflammatory state." 1
• NP001 mechanism of action: "Within monocytes/macrophages, chlorite is converted into taurine chloramine that downregulates nuclear factor κB (NF-κB) expression and inhibits production of proinflammatory cytokine IL-1β." 1

You cannot present that kind of lists like it's all proven facts with only one trial, this is misleading, it has to be replicated.

 

[Barry]

You cannot present that kind of list like it's all proven facts with only one trial, this is misleading, it as to be replicated.

It sounds like it should be illegal.

 

[Diluted-biscuit]

You cannot present that kind of lists like it's all proven facts with only one trial, this is misleading, it has to be replicated.

You would expect people aware of ME/CFS politics and research to be particularly aware of such things too.......

 

[Hip]

No doubt oxidising agents like this will do all sorts of interesting things to cells in culture or animal experiments but it is totally implausible that it has any relevance to human disease.

Why?

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Why?

Because none of the evidence presented gives the slightest indication that it would be.

 

[Sisyphus]

There is someone on the other board who promote this for use with autism. He says he administers “a few drops”. It takes all the restraint I can muster not to call him out on it every time I see his grinning icon in a post.