I don't find it credible that they wouldn't have considered that evidence, but there is no way to prove that. It's completely unbelievable, but lack of evidence is in their favor, always.
Wired Magazine: The Painful Truth About Long Covid by Alan Levinovitz, 2026
- Thread starter leokitten
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Despite all claims otherwise, this is very much what modern psychosomatic ideology is, and has always been. There is a question as to exactly how much: is it 99%, or 99.9%, or 100%? But 99% is the floor, and lying about it is part of the model. Those lying about it are just as dishonorable as those who pretend otherwise, IMO.
It was always the conversion disorder. It's still the conversion disorder, but it was always the conversion disorder, too. Medicine has never progressed from that, and it's a popular belief regardless.
Funny thing is that AL argued many times how sees this as similar to addiction, he kept repeating it throughout his comments, and yet this entire model is essentially: just stop doing addiction, and it will work once you are no longer addicted, and if you keep being addicted, then you have to just keep doing non-addiction things and have non-addiction thoughts.
Similar with depression, this is explicitly a "stop being depressed, ya loser" model, and although there are a lot of people who accept the framing that anyone can fix this by simply starting to eat well, socialize and exercise, there is no such thing written down in textbooks and guidelines, because obviously neither depression or addiction work this way. Most physicians specialized in depression would be angry if someone said that, but those who think of ME/CFS as depression would have no problem saying that about us. Somehow, because it's a "one special boy" kind of thing.
Even though the most common comparisons people like to make about us are depression and addiction, they still think it's fine to do to us what they would never accept about those. Even though if "brain retraining" actually worked, addiction would be its obvious most successful application, it would be a solved issue. And yet it's barely used for it, because it's pseudoscientific bullshit, even though by definition it can't not work, it even meets all the conditions based on what's known about addiction, reward loops, expectation effects, predictive coding and all. I don't know what we did to deserve this much cruelty, but it's really out of proportion, and so damn bizarre.
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when I was spending a lot of time in Ukraine 25 or so years ago, we were warned not to eat sausages from Moldova, which was in even worse economic shape than Ukraine, because you never knew who might be in them. A la Sweeney Todd. It was mostly a joke, but also seriously said.
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MrMagoo
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Yeah not that bad, but we named “unappealing” animal body parts said to be used in a sausage. Ew and gristle!!!! I only had to eat them at school.
“How the cake is made” might be a more acceptable version to a UK audience.
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In the US, "how the sausage is made" is never about actual sausage but about the messiness behind any product that comes out looking palatable.
MrMagoo
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
But looking palatable isn’t a low bar?
I've never liked sausage, so to me by definition it's a low bar, yes.
Sparkly Unicorn
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Non-fiction tends to work differently and deals often happen on a book proposal and not on a completed manuscript. But that said he'd have to have it pretty much planned out & we know he's been interviewing for a year.
Publishing moves slow so maybe 2027, possibly 2028.
Looks like AL has his book jacket cover photo done. (This is a joke) This is his Father's Day present (not a joke).
At least he's ready to go demon hunting.
The above post epitomises the generational or cultural or gender divide between me and a lot of people who post on Twitter. I look at it and am totally bemused at why a grown man would want to walk into a virtual town square and stand there, legs astride in a fake power pose holding up handfuls of small garden tools.
I feel like I'm existing on another planet.
I feel like I'm existing on another planet.
Peter T
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I had assumed it was a ‘real’ location.
Like you I am largely disconnected from the ‘modern’ world, over fifteen years since I have seen the sea or been in a city, but I think ax throwing has become a relatively popular activity. I guess it must be quite profitable if you have a spare garage or shed where you can pad a wall with some wood off cuts and buy a few handfuls of small garden tools then over charge people for their Vikings or Game of Thrones experience.
Bear with me if you will. I think this is relevant to this thread.
It's quite an odd existence living for the last 20+ years confined to my home and increasingly to my bed, and only going out with assistance rarely to essential visits to dentist or hospital.
And at the same time in my head, via laptop and smartphone, connected to the world in small snatches of others lives that seem increasingly alien, including apparently, throwing mini axes for fun. An alien world - apart from this forum where I find sanity, kindness, companionship, a sense of purpose, and intellectual stimulation.
Involuntary house arrest with added pains and disabilities is such a strange existence to experience for decades it must be extremely hard to imagine for healthy people. Some respond with empathy and want to understand and help if they can. Some look on from the outside occasionally and assume it is a pleasant lazy indolent life being supported by the state to lie around all day doing nothing much. Some don't want to know and cope by ignoring us.
And some see us as unworthy, malingerers, not wanting to get better, even as gangs of malevolent blinkered fools attacking and trying to silence those who want to help.
Some see us as fair game for their creative storytelling of good and evil, saviours and demons, cherrypicking anecdotes to add colour and an illusion that their storytelling is an accurate reflection of reality. And in doing so dehumanising us, their powerless subjects, lauding our self defined saviors who want to retrain our brains; accusing us, attributing to the most powerless a power to silence the powerful who are repeatedly platformed to pronounce their being silenced.
Why would someone, who as far as we know has no personal experience or professionally relevant knowledge, choose apparently out of the blue, to punch down on a bunch of sick people struggling to find some way to go on existing?
Why, @Learningandlistening
pick on us? Why is pontificating about our suffering in such derogatory and ignorant terms, claiming to have new insights, but parroting decades old tropes about causes and cures of post infection illness, in any way appropriate work for a professor of religion?
Is this part of the job description for the religion department? Are you teaching courses on cults and using our online gathering for mutual support, advocacy and scientific discussion as an example of a misguided and even demonic cult?
I just don't get any of it.
What is the point?
There's no new insight here. Nothing helpful for sick people. Just tawdry entertainment for healthy people who like to feel superior and enjoy dehumanising and demonising what they don't understand.
It's quite an odd existence living for the last 20+ years confined to my home and increasingly to my bed, and only going out with assistance rarely to essential visits to dentist or hospital.
And at the same time in my head, via laptop and smartphone, connected to the world in small snatches of others lives that seem increasingly alien, including apparently, throwing mini axes for fun. An alien world - apart from this forum where I find sanity, kindness, companionship, a sense of purpose, and intellectual stimulation.
Involuntary house arrest with added pains and disabilities is such a strange existence to experience for decades it must be extremely hard to imagine for healthy people. Some respond with empathy and want to understand and help if they can. Some look on from the outside occasionally and assume it is a pleasant lazy indolent life being supported by the state to lie around all day doing nothing much. Some don't want to know and cope by ignoring us.
And some see us as unworthy, malingerers, not wanting to get better, even as gangs of malevolent blinkered fools attacking and trying to silence those who want to help.
Some see us as fair game for their creative storytelling of good and evil, saviours and demons, cherrypicking anecdotes to add colour and an illusion that their storytelling is an accurate reflection of reality. And in doing so dehumanising us, their powerless subjects, lauding our self defined saviors who want to retrain our brains; accusing us, attributing to the most powerless a power to silence the powerful who are repeatedly platformed to pronounce their being silenced.
Why would someone, who as far as we know has no personal experience or professionally relevant knowledge, choose apparently out of the blue, to punch down on a bunch of sick people struggling to find some way to go on existing?
Why, @Learningandlistening
pick on us? Why is pontificating about our suffering in such derogatory and ignorant terms, claiming to have new insights, but parroting decades old tropes about causes and cures of post infection illness, in any way appropriate work for a professor of religion?
Is this part of the job description for the religion department? Are you teaching courses on cults and using our online gathering for mutual support, advocacy and scientific discussion as an example of a misguided and even demonic cult?
I just don't get any of it.
What is the point?
There's no new insight here. Nothing helpful for sick people. Just tawdry entertainment for healthy people who like to feel superior and enjoy dehumanising and demonising what they don't understand.
Hoopoe
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
It's an American cultural thing.
It's entertainment. Some people enjoy seeing others put down because it makes them feel superior.
Wessely also exploited this aspect of human nature to market CBT/GET. A narrative of stupid patients disabled by their own irrational fears that could be overcome with something as trivial as gradually doing more exercise was sold as legitimate medical theory. It allowed people to put down a marginalized group and feel good about it. CBT/GET also solved the problem doctors had with not knowing how to treat or manage this group of patients. The othering wasn't an error, it was by design.
The Science Media Center also used this propaganda technique effectively against ME/CFS. They didn't report the facts and opinions in a dry manner, they always told an emotionally charged story that justified contempt for patients.
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I feel quite confused that a person who came here without any desire to truly learn and listen triggered a discussion longer than 800 posts. I do understand that his statements were needed to be critically challenged, however, it pisses me off that he succeeded in his manipulative clout chasing behaviour. Wish some other topics here were discussed that rigorously.
