Wired Magazine: The Painful Truth About Long Covid

If we're going to give credence to patients' lived experience of how their illness responds or doesn't respond, then shouldn't we give credence to the lived experiences of patients — like Larson and Lupi in my piece, and thousands of others — who tried tons of things, are very familiar with how their illness responds or does not, and then finally find relief through some BPS intervention? And they're sure it's right because they can feel it? Or do we reserve disdain, skepticism, and disbelief for them, but keep a more open mind to the ones who claim it was LDN, or metformin, or their second craniocervical surgery that led to their recovery?

A recovery is one-time event, not a repeated experience observed many times over years.

You can't determine causality in one-time event.

Across the patient community, natural recovery unrelated to treatment will be occurring often enough to regularly create the convincing impression that some treatment caused it. As one would expect, there exist recovery claims involving all sorts of things.

I also don't have an interest in say rapamycin despite there existing recovery stories for it. If people were as pushy about rapamycin as they were about mind-body treatments I would certainly over time become annoyed and fed up. Especially if the scientific evidence for rapamycin was poor.

One difference between mind-body treatments and other things is that oftn there is this aggressive marketing behind it. The idea that a good treatment would be promoted in this way is not credible. A lot of things are not credible about mind-body treatments.
 
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It is a piece that argues the *validity* and *reality* and *legitimacy* of physiological symptoms, in the context of ME/CFS and LC, is tied directly to their not being amenable to mind-body interventions.
Couldn't this argument be made for any disorder? E.g., the validity/reality/legitimacy of physiological symptoms, in the context of cancer, is tied to their not being amenable to mind-body interventions.
 
Jonathan, if you think hEDS is an incoherent concept, and no one in the medical community accepts it, I have bad news. Many, many people in the medical community accept it.

I am well aware of that, @Learningandlistening. I am not unfamiliar with the status of things. As you have probably read here, I have rubbed shoulders with bendy physicians all my career.

I did not say that no one in the medical community accepts the concept of hEDS. There is a thriving hEDS industry led by thousands of hack physicians wanting to make a buck - as you point out. But there remains a majority who keep their distance who can see this is just a gimmick diagnosis (the politics of this in my own department has been discussed here).

But I admit that there is an important historical background to this, again, aired here. The USA scientific medicine that was the envy of the world in the 1980s has collapsed intellectually. Bright kids no longer see medicine as their Everest, unlike Alec Isaacs, who discovered interferon and Edelman and Porter who sequenced antibodies in the 1960/70s. The consensus of scientifically minded physicians has shrunk even over here. All I see on Twitter from North America is people chasing fashions built on misconceptions we understood as students.

If you want to do the socio-politics that might be more fertile ground. (My first degree is in History of Art and I did a Philosophy MA course later so I know a bit about humanities essays but I never got into politics.)
 
If we're going to give credence to patients' lived experience of how their illness responds or doesn't respond, then shouldn't we give credence to the lived experiences of patients — like Larson and Lupi in my piece, and thousands of others — who tried tons of things, are very familiar with how their illness responds or does not, and then finally find relief through some BPS intervention? And they're sure it's right because they can feel it? Or do we reserve disdain, skepticism, and disbelief for them, but keep a more open mind to the ones who claim it was LDN, or metformin, or their second craniocervical surgery that led to their recovery?
Believing someone got better and believing their account of why they got better are two different things. For example, if I believe prayer heals, and I attribute my spontaneous remission to prayer, does that mean it should automatically be believed? Strange position to stake out.
 
I am well aware of that, @Learningandlistening. I am not unfamiliar with the status of things. As you have probably read here, I have rubbed shoulders with bendy physicians all my career.

I did not say that no one in the medical community accepts the concept of hEDS. There is a thriving hEDS industry led by thousands of hack physicians wanting to make a buck - as you point out. But there remains a majority who keep their distance who can see this is just a gimmick diagnosis (the politics of this in my own department has been discussed here).

But I admit that there is an important historical background to this, again, aired here. The USA scientific medicine that was the envy of the world in the 1980s has collapsed intellectually. Bright kids no longer see medicine as their Everest, unlike Alec Isaacs, who discovered interferon and Edelman and Porter who sequenced antibodies in the 1960/70s. The consensus of scientifically minded physicians has shrunk even over here. All I see on Twitter from North America is people chasing fashions built on misconceptions we understood as students.

If you want to do the socio-politics that might be more fertile ground. (My first degree is in History of Art and I did a Philosophy MA course later so I know a bit about humanities essays but I never got into politics.)
Sorry, you've sucked me back in, since your responses (as most of the responses here) are thoughtful and helpful. I'd like to suggest that there's something going on with LC that is not dissimilar from another condition I'm far more familiar with, namely gluten sensitivity.

Forgive me for repeating history you may already be familiar with, but: We've got a small but significant subpopulation who exhibit a suite of related but pretty common symptoms, sometimes mild, sometimes severe. No one knows what's causing them, so they get dismissed or psychologized. Then you have the discovery of celiac disease. Those who have symptoms like the ones experienced by those who have celiac disease believe they may have something like celiac as well!

A new entity emerges: non-celiac gluten sensitivity. This is a much, MUCH broader entity, with no good way to diagnose it other than symptoms and self-report. People do all the studies they can. It looks like there might be a subpopulation of those who don't have celiac but still react to gluten. A much larger set of the people who think they have NCGS simply don't. What do they have? It's hard to say, but likely a subset are experiencing physiological symptoms, occasionally severe ones, that are the product of lifestyle, stress, and other "BPS" type factors.

In my opinion, the diagnostic category of LC is somewhat like gluten sensitivity as a diagnostic category. A minority have something like celiac disease, the symptoms of which have a specific biological etiology. Another minority may have something else that's like celiac disease, but not quite the same thing. And then, because the diagnostic categories are capacious, there's a bunch of other people who have "gluten sensitivity" but in fact their symptoms are due to any number of other factors. Not only that, but some of those people respond well to BPS interventions because the etiology of their condition can be treated with BPS interventions.

Those people — in the case of LC dxs, let's say 30-40%? who knows — should in fact be approached with something like exposure therapy and responsible gradual exercise, and "brain retraining" of whatever kind they seem to get benefit from. More importantly: If they are allowed/encouraged to believe that in fact they have what the other folks have (the "celiac" subset), they are likely to get worse, and suffer harm, because they will do things like try a bunch of therapeutics, or avoid physical activity needlessly, or become distressed that they will never recover from a condition they don't actually have.

How can we sort that 30-40% (or whatever the number is) from the rest? It's very, very hard right now, because even entertaining something like this hypothesis about LC — which I think is a reasonable one? open to pushback of course — is, as I say in my article, taboo! In addition, many people with the LC version of celiac (yet to be discovered) are furious at being dismissed or told they have something else. Many of them make it a top priority that anyone who identifies as having LC is not questioned. And...here we are.
 
One reason to find psychosomatic treatments irritating is that they tend to be made into a test of one's character. The patient is told that it's all their fault/responsibility and that success depends on their efforts, good will, ability to overcome themselves, etc. It reveals something about the prejudices of its proponents and begins feeling like manipulation intended to distract from the reality that there is nothing they could offer me. If I wanted a spiritual test and personal growth, I would go elsewhere than the doctor's office.

So patients do have a good reason to dislike psychosomatic treatments. The rejection of it that you dislike is merely a pushback.
 
With all due respect, I don't think you have read the piece. I link to those stories IN THE PIECE, and describe those patients' experiences. I'm extremely familiar with the history, with this forum, and with the research. None of this is new to me.
Wow, that made me laugh. PACE researcher Sharpe frequently said that to anyone on Twitter who dared to criticise PACE. Such a comment does you no credit. Of course I read it. And I've just read it again.

And I see again that you give credence to the PACE trialists claims without apparently having taken any notice of the critiques. It showed, if you bothered to look, no objective or long term benefits, and many pwME who were prescribed the CBT/GET in UK clinics based on the PACE methods got much sicker. Few improved.

You say in the article:
If exercise did indeed trigger post-exertional malaise in most patients, this level of caution would be warranted. But multiple studies have shown that self-reports of crashes don’t line up with what researchers find in controlled settings.

The 2 studies linked here are

Front Neurol
. 2025 Apr 23;16:1534352. doi: /fneur.2025.1534352

Post-exertional malaise in Long COVID: subjective reporting versus objective assessment​

Barbara Stussman 1, Nathan Camarillo 2, Gayle McCrossin 2, Marybeth Stockman 2, Gina Norato 1, C Stephenie Vetter 1, Alenka Ferrufino 2, Ashade Adedamola 1, Nicholas Grayson 1, Avindra Nath 1, Leighton Chan 2, Brian Walitt 1,*, Lisa M K Chin 2

Thread here
https://s4me.info/threads/post-exer...ssment-2025-stussman-nath-walitt-et-al.43259/

Two-day cardiopulmonary exercise testing in long COVID post-exertional malaise diagnosis​

Chiara Gattoni, Asghar Abbasi, Carrie Ferguson, Charles W. Lanks, Thomas W. Decato, Harry B. Rossiter, Richard Casaburi, William W. Stringer

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1569904824001551

See our thread here for critique:
https://s4me.info/threads/two-day-c...rtional-malaise-diagnosis-2024-gattoni.40953/

Both very small studies and with flaws such as using DSQ to diagnose PEM and only following up for a couple of days, and some people don't get PEM from a CPET.

You really shouldn't dismiss the objective reality of PEM from those studies.
 
One reason to find psychosomatic treatments irritating is that they tend to be made into a test of one's character. The patient is told that it's all their fault/responsibility and that success depends on their efforts, good will, ability to overcome themselves, etc. It reveals something about the prejudices of its proponents and begins feeling like manipulation intended to distract from the reality that there is nothing they could offer me.

So patients do have a good reason to dislike psychosomatic treatments. The rejection of it that you dislike is merely a pushback.
I agree completely with this. But let me push back a bit (this is the only forum online where I've actually had normal arguments!). What about weight loss and dieting? Dieting was also made into a test of one's character. People would be told to diet. They would try, VERY HARD, and fail. Then they'd be told they were being lazy. That their weight gain was a result of sloth and gluttony. This, of course, is manifestly false. But it is also true that the physiological mechanism — reducing calories to lose weight — of dieting was correct. A very small subset of people *did* diet successfully and keep the weight off. Dieting is an ineffective intervention. Weight gain and failed diets are not about your character. But in the process of rejecting dieting as an intervention, an entire branch of lousy science emerged trying to show that ultimately weight gain/loss wasn't about calories at all. Metabolism, medication, you name it, all were proposed as more important factors, largely because they made it impossible for weight to be associated with character.
 
Wow, that made me laugh. PACE researcher Sharpe frequently said that to anyone on Twitter who dared to criticise PACE. Such a comment does you no credit. Of course I read it. And I've just read it again.

And I see again that you give credence to the PACE trialists claims without apparently having taken any notice of the critiques. It showed, if you bothered to look, no objective or long term benefits, and many pwME who were prescribed the CBT/GET in UK clinics based on the PACE methods got much sicker. Few improved.

You say in the article:


The 2 studies linked here are

Front Neurol
. 2025 Apr 23;16:1534352. doi: /fneur.2025.1534352

Post-exertional malaise in Long COVID: subjective reporting versus objective assessment​

Barbara Stussman 1, Nathan Camarillo 2, Gayle McCrossin 2, Marybeth Stockman 2, Gina Norato 1, C Stephenie Vetter 1, Alenka Ferrufino 2, Ashade Adedamola 1, Nicholas Grayson 1, Avindra Nath 1, Leighton Chan 2, Brian Walitt 1,*, Lisa M K Chin 2

Thread here
https://s4me.info/threads/post-exer...ssment-2025-stussman-nath-walitt-et-al.43259/

Two-day cardiopulmonary exercise testing in long COVID post-exertional malaise diagnosis​

Chiara Gattoni, Asghar Abbasi, Carrie Ferguson, Charles W. Lanks, Thomas W. Decato, Harry B. Rossiter, Richard Casaburi, William W. Stringer

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1569904824001551

See our thread here for critique:
https://s4me.info/threads/two-day-c...rtional-malaise-diagnosis-2024-gattoni.40953/

Both very small studies and with flaws such as using DSQ to diagnose PEM and only following up for a couple of days, and some people don't get PEM from a CPET.

You really shouldn't dismiss the objective reality of PEM from those studies.
I didn't dismiss the reality of PEM. I said that self-report of PEM doesn't line up with what studies seem to find. That's true. I stand by it. Another recent 2 day CPET study showed the same thing. We can move the goalposts on 2 day CPETs as a good way to dx PEM, but I'm very confident that self-report of PEM and actual PEM don't align, just like self-report of neurocognitive issues doesn't always align with actual ones. The reverse is also true! Sometimes people think they *don't* have neurocognitive issues when they do (common in dementia). Self-report of lots of things is unreliable. PEM is no different, and the studies I've seen keep verifying that.
 
Wow, that made me laugh. PACE researcher Sharpe frequently said that to anyone on Twitter who dared to criticise PACE. Such a comment does you no credit. Of course I read it. And I've just read it again.

And I see again that you give credence to the PACE trialists claims without apparently having taken any notice of the critiques. It showed, if you bothered to look, no objective or long term benefits, and many pwME who were prescribed the CBT/GET in UK clinics based on the PACE methods got much sicker. Few improved.

You say in the article:


The 2 studies linked here are

Front Neurol
. 2025 Apr 23;16:1534352. doi: /fneur.2025.1534352

Post-exertional malaise in Long COVID: subjective reporting versus objective assessment​

Barbara Stussman 1, Nathan Camarillo 2, Gayle McCrossin 2, Marybeth Stockman 2, Gina Norato 1, C Stephenie Vetter 1, Alenka Ferrufino 2, Ashade Adedamola 1, Nicholas Grayson 1, Avindra Nath 1, Leighton Chan 2, Brian Walitt 1,*, Lisa M K Chin 2

Thread here
https://s4me.info/threads/post-exer...ssment-2025-stussman-nath-walitt-et-al.43259/

Two-day cardiopulmonary exercise testing in long COVID post-exertional malaise diagnosis​

Chiara Gattoni, Asghar Abbasi, Carrie Ferguson, Charles W. Lanks, Thomas W. Decato, Harry B. Rossiter, Richard Casaburi, William W. Stringer

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1569904824001551

See our thread here for critique:
https://s4me.info/threads/two-day-c...rtional-malaise-diagnosis-2024-gattoni.40953/

Both very small studies and with flaws such as using DSQ to diagnose PEM and only following up for a couple of days, and some people don't get PEM from a CPET.

You really shouldn't dismiss the objective reality of PEM from those studies.
Re: "you didn't read the piece." Sorry, that was an asshole thing to say, and I apologize. It's just that you linked to something I'd also linked to, in my discussion of precisely that issue in the piece, namely patients who had these horrific experiences. Plus lots of people seem to not be reading! Please accept my apology.
 
I agree completely with this. But let me push back a bit (this is the only forum online where I've actually had normal arguments!). What about weight loss and dieting? Dieting was also made into a test of one's character.
I have similar views and would agree that mind-body or psychosomatic interventions are made to be about character.

My personal experience is that early on in the illness, when I was still a child and t wasn't severe, the message I got from a pshychiatrist was, roughly, that I should stop misbehaving, overcome myself and put in more effort. I believed that adults and doctors could not be wrong and that I was a fundamentally a good person and took on the challenge with optimism. I believed I could learn anything. I really tried to resist the symptoms and urge to take rest days off from daily live as much as I could. Predictably, the illness become more uncontrollable and worse, and since it had been made about my character, my self-esteem took a hit whenever I failed to resist the symptoms. It ended in a crisis, permanent worsening of the illness, breakdown of trust in the family (who also believed that it was about character), much unnecessary suffering. It was precisely the opposite of what was needed.

Importantly, the treatment failed because it was based on wrong ideas. It's possible for patients to reject a treatment because it is wrong and also because it's made into a test character. These two things are not exclusive.
 
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Believing someone got better and believing their account of why they got better are two different things. For example, if I believe prayer heals, and I attribute my spontaneous remission to prayer, does that mean it should automatically be believed? Strange position to stake out.
I'm not staking out that position. I was replying to Hoopoe, who said this: "Keep in mind that patients have a lot of lived experience with how their illness responds or does not respond to outside events and their own mental state. We observe all these factors every day." I am simply saying that if we are going to take those patients lived experience seriously, and therefore believe them about how their illness does or doesn't respond to outside events and their mental state, then that extends to those patients who feel they experienced relief from mind-body interventions. I'm merely showing how what Hoopoe said would apply to them.
 
avoid physical activity needlessly,

Thank you for joining the discussion @Learningandlistening

No one with ME is avoiding exercise; we are desperately trying to do as much as possible with the energy still available to us and most, if not all of us, regularly overshoot that capacity.

I think one of the first things most of us try before we even go to the doctor is to try and push ourselves and increase our activity or exercise our way out of it.

From my experience most of us have tried meditation and variations on mind-body interventions and still use them in supportive capacity, but have so far not found them to be curative.

An alternative name for ME, LC, FM was proposed by Catherine Hale of Chronic Illness Inclusion is "energy limiting conditions" or ELCI because the energy is not available to carry out the activities of normal daily life.

It can be like trying to live life on a credit card where the interest for doing anything is extortionate and can lead to long-term worsening as well.

I would also urge you to look at the Medical Research Council funding of research in the UK, as that shows the disproportionate research funding for biopsychosocial models versus any other kind of research in the UK.
 
The article says:

One of the most rigorous trials so far of exercise interventions for long Covid, including high-intensity interval training, found “the exercise response was largely comparable” between long Covid patients and healthy controls, “with no profound symptom exacerbation.”

The trial linked is this one:
April 4, 2024

Functional Limitations and Exercise Intolerance in Patients With Post-COVID Condition​

Andrea Tryfonos, PhD1,2; Kaveh Pourhamidi, MD, PhD3; Gustav Jörnåker, MSc1; et al

https://archive.is/vi8WV#selection-5539.0-5601.5

We don't seem to have a thread on it. I'll make one after making this post.

Edit: I found the thread. Discussion worth reading.
https://s4me.info/threads/functiona...ver-clinical-trial-2024-tryfonos-et-al.37969/

The quote from the article uses this trial to dismiss concerns about exercise interventions for Long Covid, but the study linked used DSQ to diagose PEM which as we know doesn't diagnose PEM, it diagnoses fatigability. And the results of the trial showed significant biological differences after exercise in patients and controls. Symptoms after exercise were only tracked for 2 days after a single exercise session.

This is the worst kind of cherry picking of research to bolster a point of view. What about all the studies that found detrimental effects of exercise in LC?

The article says:

A single trial, even a rigorous one, is not proof of anything. One way to address uncertainty about the effects of exercise would be more trials, tailored to subsets of long Covid patients. But entrenched resistance makes doing those trials exceedingly difficult. It’s challenging to find a large number of subjects, because patients have read about the perils of exercise online and don’t want to enroll. And at universities, institutional review boards have been primed to think exercise is inexcusably dangerous.

That is a very skewed perspective. There have been dozens of trials. And it is right to be cautious of harm. Ethics committees should take more notice, not less. So many have been irreparably harmed.

And then the article swings back to brain training with lots more anecdotes to persuade the reader even with photos. Even quoting Paul Garner. I mean really? Where are the counterbalancing anecdotes of people made sicker by these treatments? I'm sure you could have found plenty if you looked.

And all the stuff about threats is of no relevance to a scientific discussion. I've had my say on that earlier on this thread. I won't say it all again, it just makes me angry. Why should I have to suffer articles that as good as accuse me of being a threat to anyone. I'm a sick old woman lying in bed who has never threatened anyone in my life.

Patient advocacy is partially responsible for keeping these therapies on the fringe. But the marginalization of mind-body interventions didn’t start with the pandemic. Just as long Covid is a subset of a historically dismissed condition, stories like Larson’s and Lupi’s are a subset of recovery stories historically dismissed by the medical mainstream. Genuinely honoring the principle of believing patients means taking those seriously too.
Oh for goodness sake, what a load of rubbish. Patient advocacy rightly dismisses grifters promoting unevidenced and potentially harmful treatments. Surely it's possible for you to understand that we can be pleased for individuals that they recovered, while also not accepting anecdotal recovery stories as evidence of anything but the individuals' good fortune. A recovery story is not evidence that a particular treatment works. I say again, where is the clinical trial evidence? There is none.

I have wasted enough time on this. It seems like the purpose of the article was to make a story and find things to reference and anecodes to tell that supported the story, and ignore any inconvenient facts that would dispute that story. That's not how you look objectively at scientific evidence.
 
I think it's telling that the author has not responded to the point made by several people that BPS theories and studies are being funded all the time. Far from it being a 'secret' that no one can even talk about, it appears to be a hot research topic with lots of funding.

Meanwhile, as Trish pointed out, zero poignant stories of patients made worse by trying to exercise. Incredibly unbalanced article.

Even as a straw man, I find it amazing that the author apparently wants people to believe that 30-40 percent of people diagnosed with LC simply never tried exercising to get better. I mean...huh? That is pretty insane when you think about it. We are to believe that millions of people naively resign themselves to chronic illness because they are so scared by various news articles and forums that they never try to ramp up activity. It beggars belief...
 
I would also add that, as an example, The Feel Better, Live More podcast, hosted by UK-based medical doctor and author Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, has surpassed 1.3 million and ranks consistently as one of the top health shows in Europe.

He has Howard Schubiner on for the second time on this week's episode and regularly talks about the biopsychosocial side of health. This is an area that is frequently discussed within the health and wellness community, and is one of the main approaches offered in our pain management clinics, so I struggle to understand the headline of your article that said that we're not talking about mind body interventions for both pain and illness.
 
Thank you for joining the discussion @Learningandlistening

No one with ME is avoiding exercise; we are desperately trying to do as much as possible with the energy still available to us and most, if not all of us, regularly overshoot that capacity.

I think one of the first things most of us try before we even go to the doctor is to try and push ourselves and increase our activity or exercise our way out of it.

From my experience most of us have tried meditation and variations on mind-body interventions and still use them in supportive capacity, but have so far not found them to be curative.

An alternative name for ME, LC, FM was proposed by Catherine Hale of Chronic Illness Inclusion is "energy limiting conditions" or ELCI because the energy is not available to carry out the activities of normal daily life.

It can be like trying to live life on a credit card where the interest for doing anything is extortionate and can lead to long-term worsening as well.

I would also urge you to look at the Medical Research Council funding of research in the UK, as that shows the disproportionate research funding for biopsychosocial models versus any other kind of research in the UK.
Thanks for your reply. I know you all have discussed these issues extensively, so forgive me for rehashing. I don't think "exercise" is a very helpful term. As you point out, (a subset) of people with LC and (by definition) people with ME experience PEM if they overexert themselves. But exertion isn't just "exercise." People often report crashing from excessive cognitive effort (makes sense, the brain is part of metabolism).

With pacing, the assumption is there's some kind of envelope or limit, and if someone goes beyond it they'll crash. People then end up determining that limit — very vague, very hard to figure out, no way to measure — through experience, and try to stay under it.

Now let's understand gradual exercise therapy as "any kind of activity undertaken with the end of increasing the size of that envelope." People could swap some activity in their life for that exercise, and in doing so perhaps slowly increase their envelope. We could study this, and see if it works for some people, and which kind of activities are most effective at doing so. This seems like a very important area of study, and it can only be done by studying "exercise" so defined in people with PEM. It's not clear to me why that would be impossible, since if there's a closed system of energy, it would just mean someone swapping one activity in their life for this other activity that takes up the same amount of energy.

I understand that for people who are already using all their energy for their basic every day activities, that swap isn't insignificant. But given that lots of people are using their energy in *some* ways that are probably replaceable with this kind of exercise, I think it's probably a good swap.

Otherwise, what will happen is people who are trying to avoid overshooting are statistically likely to end up *undershooting* the envelope. Understandably, but that is a recipe for maintaining a status quo physically and mentally, at best, or very slowly deconditioning, at worst.
 
Thanks for your reply. I know you all have discussed these issues extensively, so forgive me for rehashing. I don't think "exercise" is a very helpful term. As you point out, (a subset) of people with LC and (by definition) people with ME experience PEM if they overexert themselves. But exertion isn't just "exercise." People often report crashing from excessive cognitive effort (makes sense, the brain is part of metabolism).

With pacing, the assumption is there's some kind of envelope or limit, and if someone goes beyond it they'll crash. People then end up determining that limit — very vague, very hard to figure out, no way to measure — through experience, and try to stay under it.

Now let's understand gradual exercise therapy as "any kind of activity undertaken with the end of increasing the size of that envelope." People could swap some activity in their life for that exercise, and in doing so perhaps slowly increase their envelope. We could study this, and see if it works for some people, and which kind of activities are most effective at doing so. This seems like a very important area of study, and it can only be done by studying "exercise" so defined in people with PEM. It's not clear to me why that would be impossible, since if there's a closed system of energy, it would just mean someone swapping one activity in their life for this other activity that takes up the same amount of energy.

I understand that for people who are already using all their energy for their basic every day activities, that swap isn't insignificant. But given that lots of people are using their energy in *some* ways that are probably replaceable with this kind of exercise, I think it's probably a good swap.

Otherwise, what will happen is people who are trying to avoid overshooting are statistically likely to end up *undershooting* the envelope. Understandably, but that is a recipe for maintaining a status quo physically and mentally, at best, or very slowly deconditioning, at worst.
I would be shocked if any but a small minority never try expanding their energy envelope while suffering from LC or ME/CFS. What else is there to do with one's time?
 
I would also add that, as an example, The Feel Better, Live More podcast, hosted by UK-based medical doctor and author Dr. Rangan Chatterjee, has surpassed 1.3 million and ranks consistently as one of the top health shows in Europe.

He has Howard Schubiner on for the second time on this week's episode and regularly talks about the biopsychosocial side of health. This is an area that is frequently discussed within the health and wellness community, and is one of the main approaches offered in our pain management clinics, so I struggle to understand the headline of your article that said that we're not talking about mind body interventions for both pain and illness.
The headline and subtitle are outside my control, which sucks. The article itself does not claim that these therapies are "cutting edge" or "not talked about".
 
It's not clear to me why that would be impossible, since if there's a closed system of energy, it would just mean someone swapping one activity in their life for this other activity that takes up the same amount of energy.
In the graded exercise studies, what people probably ended up doing was reducing other activities in order to be able to meet the exercise targets.
 
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