An Open Letter to BACME re ME/CFS Guide to Therapy 2025

Rehabilitation is defined by most people (and dictionaries) as restoring someone to previous health or to normal life. More widely it’s about restoring a thing to its previous state or attempts to do so. It’s intrinsically linked to ideas of re-establishment or renewal.

Extending the definition seems to only to unnecessarily confuse.

Some confusion arises between ‘rehabilitation’ as generally understood by the lay audience and rehabilitation being what is done by health related professionals in rehabilitation settings.

There are some things done by clinicians in rehabilitation settings that may be relevant for people with ME, but they need to be distinguished from rehabilitation aimed at restoring function and consideration given relating to how, by whom and to whom such would be appropriate.

I had been thinking about creating a thread discussing the issues that are confusingly subsumed within rehabilitation that may be relevant to people with ME/CFS, discussing how they might be evaluated within a consultant/specialist nurse type service. Hopefully I will get my thoughts enough in order to do this soon.
 
It is like someone trying to convince you there is evidence base for the rehabilitation model as a primary treatment in cataplexy. It does not exist. Either they think we are all dim or the rehabilitation folk are dim. My primary specialist is a 50 year veteran in rehabilitation and he does not believe the rehab model for ME/CFS works. He just sees me as a doctor with common sense.
 
Even if you don't agree about that Jonathan, I think good arguments can be made to support the idea that ME/CFS is a post-infective illness.
It can’t be post-infective if there are cases of ME/CFS seemingly without any triggering infections.

And there is no guarantee that ME/CFS is related in any way to the trigger infection, other than that the infection was an immune event, because it doesn’t look like different infections create different types of ME/CFS.
 
There is a clear link between infections and ME/CFS type illnesses.

Absolutely, but it appears nowhere in the definition of the illness and has no great impact, at least for now, on our understanding of the illness or its management. ME/CFS occurs with no history of infection and as infection seems to be a very non-specific trigger. So, calling ME/CFS a post-infective illness is unhelpful. The important point is that it is not just post-viral fatigue. Something much longer term is going on and the level and type of management required is totally different.
 
It can’t be post-infective if there are cases of ME/CFS seemingly without any triggering infections.

And there is no guarantee that ME/CFS is related in any way to the trigger infection, other than that the infection was an immune event, because it doesn’t look like different infections create different types of ME/CFS.
There may be multiple ways to get to ME/CFS, with a triggering infection just one, but likely a major one. If that is true, it is valid to say that ME/CFS is a post-infective illness.

For sure, it seems likely that the mechanism is via a common immune response. But there is still a relationship there between the triggering infection and the resulting ME/CFS state. Not all sorts of infections seem to trigger ME/CFS, but some seem to. I don't want to derail the thread or distract from the great and very useful open letter, so I'll leave it there on this thread.
 
It can’t be post-infective if there are cases of ME/CFS seemingly without any triggering infections.

And there is no guarantee that ME/CFS is related in any way to the trigger infection, other than that the infection was an immune event, because it doesn’t look like different infections create different types of ME/CFS.
I agree with @Hutan 's point though on not falling for the distraction (whilst we can always have another thread listing illnesses like MS now being linked to things like prior EBV infection and lots of other conditions where people might have had an infection at some point triggering or making it worse)

The aim of this is to get everyone talking on side debates about whether rehab medicine can debulk tumours if you take the term rehab in a different context (they might want to come up with a different name for their department if they are getting that confused, and if not ... well), or 'is it post-infectious' so it can sit under rehabs' new society


Rather than discuss or read or even acknowledge the pretty serious issue that the open letter was about. I guess it doesn't matter to him if this doesn't work?

- of course he would like any direct reply to distract down that rabbit hole rather than holding him to confirming that he is aware and therefore has foreseeability regarding the BACME therapy doc.

All of this has hidden a choice not to answer so far on a letter of concern about made up 'therapies' likely to do harm.


PS. Talk about dismissive about the needs of severe and very severe ME/CFS 'patients', where were their interests and situation mentioned in any of the responses, rather than the kingdom of x,y,z?

And doesn't pushing a treatment that has harmed, will harm (situationally massively and psychologically as well as physically probably) and it being flagged as such represent something that deserves a sensible and straight answer directly on the topic.

Which if you took that as a test of who could be responsible enough, in the meaning of the word 'acting appropriately/safe pair of hands', should mean that someone would be concerned to read and look into it. Not talk about something else they prefer.

ANd PS now I think about those analogies it's worse than that, it is using made-up, unevidenced things that have failed in the past - so what would that equate to regarding 'debulking cancer tumours' because it is an issue of 'delivering the wrong things' and 'measuring the right outcome' which with oncology I guess is them measuring said tumour, and their 5yr, 10yr mortality rates. Along with proper trials and peer review using different standards to what we've seen from rehab et al.
 
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Hmm ... My GP medical records from the onset read .... "Its a virus" ... "Its a virus" .... "Its a virus" ....
"It could be post viral" ..... "It's the menopause!" .... (No it wasn't) .... "Its psychological!" ......
When I said I thought it was not "psychological" ..... The GP snarled down the phone, quite aggressively.
I was too sick to physically get to the surgery at that point..... I never recovered and within 3 months was unable to move or speak.
 
Is this person reading the same document on rehabilition from the WHO as I am?

The first sentence explicitly says "Rehabilitation is an essential part of universal health coverage along with promotion of good health, prevention of disease, treatment and palliative care."
So quite clearly they differentiatie rehabilitation from treatment and palliative care.

Moreover they write "Rehabilitation can reduce the impact of a broad range of health conditions, including diseases (acute or chronic), illnesses or injuries. It complements other health interventions, such as medical and surgical interventions, helping to facilitate recovery and achieve the best outcome possible.". So it does not include medical and surgical interventions by definition of the WHO but is complementary to these.


Beyond that it all seems purely a distraction without covering any of the actual issues whilst the junk folder just gets larger.
 
Hmm ... My GP medical records from the onset read .... "Its a virus" ... "Its a virus" .... "Its a virus" ....
"It could be post viral" ..... "It's the menopause!" .... (No it wasn't) .... "Its psychological!" ......
When I said I thought it was not "psychological" ..... The GP snarled down the phone, quite aggressively.
I was too sick to physically get to the surgery at that point..... I never recovered and within 3 months was unable to move or speak.
Sounds like a nightmare. I hope you have someone better in your corner now.
 
Sounds like a nightmare. I hope you have someone better in your corner now.


Oh thank you! x ... That was 30 years ago. I must say the total worst year was the first. I hadn't a clue what I had for years. In the first year I came the closest to dying, At home alone. Unable to phone out. Unable to get to the kitchen. Going without food. Barely/Not conscious for days at a time.
I thought - whatever I have (I hadn't a clue what it was) I'm sure people die of it. Die of it direct - or die from falling down the stairs trying to get to the kitchen or loo.

I was fortunate in that the trajectory was to improvement - though with a definite ceiling. I didn't know about PEM and so when there was some improvement I pushed it unwittingly. And ended up back at unable to move, or speak, or dial a phone number.

30 years later, having had some limited improvement, so some limited good life for a few years- now ME is joining up with old age.

My family are now on my case and V helpful (after many years). And I can afford home helps.
The early years were the total worst, as I think for many people with ME
EDIT - (though I know some/many pwME do go from mild/moderate ME to severe/V severe years after onset, many from being advised to do GET).

The greatest thing was recovering some intellectual ability from year 5/6 - being able to read again after years, then able to analyse what I read - though now that is receding again.

.
 
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Not all sorts of infections seem to trigger ME/CFS, but some seem to.
Do we know that for sure?
Is this person reading the same document on rehabilition from the WHO as I am?

The first sentence explicitly says "Rehabilitation is an essential part of universal health coverage along with promotion of good health, prevention of disease, treatment and palliative care."
So quite clearly they differentiatie rehabilitation from treatment and palliative care.

Moreover they write "Rehabilitation can reduce the impact of a broad range of health conditions, including diseases (acute or chronic), illnesses or injuries. It complements other health interventions, such as medical and surgical interventions, helping to facilitate recovery and achieve the best outcome possible.". So it does not include medical and surgical interventions by definition of the WHO but is complementary to these.


Beyond that it all seems purely a distraction without covering any of the actual issues whilst the junk folder just gets larger.
It’s after the bullet points below the overview header:
Rehabilitation is defined as “a set of interventions designed to optimize functioning and reduce disability in individuals with health conditions in interaction with their environment”.
 
I don't believe either someone with a broken hip or potential cancer should only be seen by specialists in physical and rehabillitation medicine

There's also the point that even in very old age, rehab offered after hip replacement surgery is sometimes limited to ward nurses getting people up on their feet, then a pre-discharge mobility assessment. The procedure's done under epidural anaesthetic, and elderly people who were otherwise well can make straightforward recoveries with surprisingly little pain. They do all the rehab themselves because they want to stay independent.
 
What’s he rehabilitating? I can do everything I used to, except I can’t do it for long or repeatedly. Then I become fatigued. You can’t rehabilitate the fatigue because that’s the presently unknown and incurable ME/CFS.

If I want to go swimming, running or weightlifting I could. I shouldn’t, but I could if I wanted, which I certainly do not.
 
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