BPS attempts at psychologizing Long Covid

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic news - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by rvallee, Jul 22, 2020.

  1. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Fitness industry’s role in rehabilitating COVID-19 sufferers 'cannot be over-estimated'

    https://www.healthclubmanagement.co...e-Steve-Ward-Dane-Vishnubala-Active-IQ/346202

    :banghead: It can, in fact, be overestimated.
     
  2. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    The more people he asks if they are saying they don't believe in psychological illness, the more I hope it become clear that BPS defenders are one trick ponies.

    Ok two tricks, the BPS approach itself and the "opponents are afraid of the stigma of mental illness" deflection.
     
  3. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Reads more like an aspirational plan than anything. Basically a hammer demanding nails.


    The Role of Rehabilitation in Individuals with Coronavirus COVID-19: A Comprehensive Review

    https://gavinpublishers.com/article...h-coronavirus-covid-19-a-comprehensive-review

    Evidence-based medicine fails again. At this point it's beyond embarrassing, this is just an evidence laundering process where people just put out whatever they want to be true and others build on the same thing they want to be true.
     
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  4. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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  5. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    From post #153 above, in the first quote :

    I half expected to see the addition of "or else xxxxx" at the end of that sentence. For anything medical or health related to be mandatory always strikes me as being very threatening.
     
  6. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    To read those articles makes one suspect that the initiative involves people with highly developed muscles... particularly between the ears. we all recognise that the sector has been badly affected by lockdowns and quarantine, but it would help if vested, commercial interest were not so obvious.

    Never look a gift milch cow, that lays the golden egg, in the mouth.
     
  7. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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  8. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The Danes* at RecoveryNorge are at it again:

    https://twitter.com/user/status/1304135187677224961


    I especially love the fact that it is known that most people naturally recover from PVFS and so any such story is as irrelevant and unremarkable as people who recover from colds because of healing crystals or whatever.

    * It's an inside joke between me and... probably another person, nevermind :p
     
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  9. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There is more to unpack in that article so this is just for starters:

    Of all the information out there that people with ME might wish everyone knew my present top choice is for someone somewhere to do a very clear study on recovery after getting ill with a virus (I know that's too vague). I would very much like it to generally be better understood that some people who have symptoms that linger past a few weeks will still recover without assistance and with adequate rest. And that others will not be so lucky.
     
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  10. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Retweeted by @FatigatioeV I see. @TiredSam
     
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  11. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Guh. I'm afraid the covid long-haulers are in for a dizzying assortment of unusually heavily concentrated bullshit campaigns as certain types mobilize to stake out some of the space for their interests.
     
  12. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    I was going to add :rofl: even before I read the asterisk. :rolleyes:

    In her book "But you don't look ill" the author (who has ME) was told by her doctor that she would recover in ~three years after a postviral onset. Around that time she did start to feel better, got a job, and started living her life. Then she started to deteriorate again and eventually had to quit working.

    I started to feel better after a few years myself, then had some next to normal years (I could get symptoms and I would feel there was something "there" if I pushed too hard.. but for most people not being as active they might not have noticed) and then crashed to be mostly homebound. I'm better than what I was that year, but it waxes and wanes. Last year I was able to be more active, so far this year my average step count is down 3000 from last year :(

    Then again, I did not have a viral onset, the only virus they found was CMV which my mother told me most likely came from the hospital when I was born. A few years later it turned out I'd gotten EBV since I became ill, maybe the first years wasn't ME, then I got mono without realizing it and THEN got ME? Who knows.
     
  13. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I am in the process of rereading Osler's Web. I find that I had forgotten much of it. Last night I got to page 471 in the chapter "A Conspiracy of Dunces".

    Anthony Fauci, director of the (NIAID), refused requests for an interview in the spring of 1991. According to a member of the Institute's public relations staff, Laurie Doepel, Fauci "didn't feel he had followed (CFS)" closely enough to be interviewed on the subject. Fauci's deputy assistant, James Hill, would be happy to talk about it, however, Doepel said. During an interview....Hill assured the interviewer he could speak for Anthony Fauci on the disease. When pressed for his boss's scientific views of the disease, Hill said, "Fauci wonders why the patients are so upset about being labeled with a psychiatric problem. I remember he said to me, "Haven't we come far enough along in our society that mental illness needn't carry a stigma?"

    Hearsay evidence, I know, but he has had plenty of time to deny it.

    Now, where have I hears that about stigmatisation of psychiatric illness before.
     
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  14. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They didn't understand then and they don't understand now. It's not the stigma that we're upset about!
     
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  15. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes. People would get just as upset if they were misdiagnosed with cancer when they didn't have it. There would be no suggestion of stigmatising cancer patients. It is simply that misdiagnosis is hugely problematic in and of itself.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
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  16. boolybooly

    boolybooly Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Intentional or not, for the record, this acts as a classic "straw man" argument, i.e. a false premise used as an adversarial point of debate which the intellectually sloppy psychologists think they can win, instead of facing the real point, which would be the priority of anyone who had sincerely benign intentions.

    In this case, falsely claiming ME patients are opposed to mischaracterisation of ME as mental illness because they are afraid of the stigma; when this is not the basis of the objection, which is that mischaracterisation leads to mistreatment, e.g. like faith based treatments for aggressive cancer, which not only don't work but are positively harmful because they cause patients not to get the treatment which could save them.

    In ME its even worse than that, because some psychologists have even forced patients to do what makes them iller and on occasion caused death as a result, as happened to poor Sophia Mirza though there are many more accounts of PWME being made much iller, such as Karina Hansen.


    WRT Anthony Fauci, I have been glad of his recent comparison of ME/CFS with longcovid, this sounds like someone who has latterly recognised the nature of the problem due to good advice from wise counsel.

    It sounds to me as if his earlier approach reflected misinformation from the insurance backed psych lobby, trying to get their toe in the door of decision makers, which he has since discarded. I think the 1996 Mental Health Parity Act++ was a watershed moment regarding the political discussion over medical insurance motives in this matter, so the timing would make sense.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Parity_Act

    I hope he might prove to be a valuable ally in the search for a rational approach to researching this kind of condition.
     
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  17. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That sounds very like someone who had very little knowledge of the disease being told by the "experts" from the CDC that there was controversy because it was a psychological disease but that patients were not happy to be told it was not physical. They are believed now and were even more likely to be believed then
     
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  18. PhysiosforME

    PhysiosforME Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    We have a call arranged with them next week!
     
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  19. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    You’re doing a great job :thumbup:
     
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  20. PhysiosforME

    PhysiosforME Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Actually - just had an update - we offered them a call and they have yet to come back to us!
     
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