Brain cells

[BrokenBeaktheBrave]

Having Paul Garner shooting off on social media isn't something I would take too seriously. Garner isn't even a psychiatrist. And he is retired. Garner is a symptom of a confused social state, not a driver. He makes a lot of noise but is unlikely to influence professional groups.

He does do a lot of the public bidding for the people that do influence professional groups though so it's hard to ignore.

I would discourage people from being in 'ME groups' where this becomes just a negative meme.

I'm not sure what you mean? Are you saying you discourage ME patients to be in community? Apologies if I'm misunderstanding - relentless brain fog is my worst symptom.

 

[SugarSquared]

I would discourage people from being in 'ME groups' where this becomes just a negative meme.

Can you clarify what you mean by meme? I’ve noticed that you use it in a different way from how I understand it as a 23 year old.

 

[Kitty]

He makes a lot of noise but is unlikely to influence professional groups.

And those professional groups aren't going to be interested in the likes of Garner either. He's become the embarrassing uncle that everyone tries to avoid inviting to weddings.

 

[Yann04]

Can you clarify what you mean by meme? I’ve noticed that you use it in a different way from how I understand it as a 23 year old.

I think it’s the sort of original Richard Dawkins definition. As in a cultural idea that spreads through imitation.

(Of which internet jokes — ie. modern definition of meme, are one example).

 

[SugarSquared]

I think it’s the sort of original Richard Dawkins definition. As in a cultural idea that spreads through imitation.

(Of which internet jokes — ie. modern definition of meme, are one example).

I had no idea there was another definition than the internet jokes one. Thanks!

 

[Lisan_Al_Ghaib_87]

View attachment 32518

Oh Hell, at one point i thought the account replying on @DMissa post with the CBT crap was our very @ME/CFS Science Blog

 

[Kitty]

I'm not sure what you mean? Are you saying you discourage ME patients to be in community? Apologies if I'm misunderstanding - relentless brain fog is my worst symptom.

Answering at a tangent: there might genuinely be an issue for people with ME/CFS who get to hear some of the discussion on S4ME but don't have the resources to spend a long time catching up with the way things are debated.

Maybe all that can be said is that people have been chasing the ideas they like for 40 years and it got us nowhere. Good scientists confront what they find, even if they don't like it or it proves them wrong.

In any case, discovering some genetic variants could be a risk for both ME/CFS and depression (or autism, or schizophrenia) wouldn't mean the diseases or the treatments have much in common. It doesn't even mean that most people with ME/CFS carry those variants—they probably don't.

 

[PageofME]

the Americans with Polybio are receiving a lot of funding for viral persistence

Thanks god for that. I've been waiting for this research to take off for four years. They are following the empirical data actually.

 

[V.R.T.]

Oh Hell, at one point i thought the account replying on @DMissa post with the CBT crap was our very @ME/CFS Science Blog

That person seems to have deliberately chosen a name and picture to create that exact false impression. They're often posting on MECFS Sciences bluesky posts and elsewhere on socials with BPS takes.

 

[PageofME]

Doesn't the very fact that we have a genetic profile here for depression suggest this?

As far as I know there hasn't been found any biomedical or genetic markers for any psychiatric condition, except for those that have a known neurological pathomechanism like for example viral brain inflammation and many more.

One of the leading neuroscientists of this field has stated a couple of years ago that the many billions that were spent into this endeavour over the past fifty years were a great waste of time and resources.

In the meantime the number of chronic psych patients on disability have been mounting every decade – just as the number of drugs they are on – while the average life expectancy has fallen steadily.

The biomedicalisation of psychiatry has already proven itself to be just as detrimental for patients as have all the other models that came before it.

I encourage everyone to do some reading on the current and factual state of psychiatry and its history instead of just reproducing the dogma du jour.

The books by Joanna Moncrieff who has published on the pharmacologisation of psychiatry over the past decades extensively and has debunked the serotonin hypothesis of depression is a good start.

For schizophrenia recovery for example the science is crystal clear from a massive long term study that was done by the WHO 15 years ago. The smaller your chance at falling into the hands of a psychiatrist – because you live in a very poor country – the less likly your risk of chronification and the higher your chance that you will experience full remission and be back to a normal life and functioning after a couple of years.

Research into the mental health of US military veterans show the same patterns. Suicidality sky rockets for those who go see psychiatrists compared to controls.

This and many more interesting questions are discussed on the Mad in America website. I will link the sources if anyone's interested.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

I'm not sure what you mean? Are you saying you discourage ME patients to be in community? Apologies if I'm misunderstanding - relentless brain fog is my worst symptom.

I would discourage people with ME/CFS from being part of an 'ME' community because ME communities are built around a seriously misleading folklore full of MEMEMEME memes, so to speak. Stuff about neuroinflammation and MCAs and mitochondria and precious little to do with ME/CFS. I am all in favour of them joining a community where people are empathetic, critical, insightful, humorous and not pushing a line, like the members here.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

As far as I know there hasn't been found any biomedical or genetic markers for any psychiatric condition, except for those that have a known neurological pathomechanism like for example viral brain inflammation and many more.

I think that would be entirely wrong if we are talking genetics.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

For schizophrenia recovery for example the science is crystal clear from a massive long term study that was done by the WHO 15 years ago. The smaller your chance at falling into the hands of a psychiatrist – because you live in a very poor country – the less likly your risk of chronification and the higher your chance that you will experience full remission and be back to a normal life and functioning after a couple of years.

Presumably this study was done by psychiatrists, who, as you say, have no idea how to do science?

 

[PageofME]

I think that would be entirely wrong if we are talking genetics.

Yes, I know that that's what doctors believe. But it's not supported by the evidence actually.

 

[PageofME]

Presumably this study was done by psychiatrists, who, as you say, have no idea how to do science?

I am sure that you agree with me that there are good and bad scientists. I think that that's actually what your are telling everyone here on this platform everyday.

 

[MrMagoo]

Thank you for saying so. This research in this thread is not only making me feel disorientated but it's making some in my ME groups spiral. Even though the science is clearly moving forward, it very much feels like we're going backwards again in the sense that the psychs and CBT are already back in the conversation.View attachment 32519
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These are exactly my and other patients concerns too.

I understand but I think equating early explorations of neurons and genes to a quid pro quo that ME is depression or some kind of mood disorder is wrong.
Even I understand that and I didn’t do biology GCSE.

Professor Garner could be perceived as very interested in upping his twitter impressions more so than helping find a cure, which is his right.

 

[MrMagoo]

Is psychoneuroimmunilogical
1. A genuine category
2. Used by kids along side “supercalifragelisticexpialidocius” or “antidisestablishmentarianism” when showing off their knowledge of long words?

 

[MrMagoo]

A meme is just a commonly understood term/phrase/motif in language. Catchphrases are a meme, stereotypes are a meme. It is rooted in culture, and allows the members who understand that culture to communicate something easily and quickly. It was likened to a gene, actually, in that it gets passed on, but culturally, not biologically.

The latest incarnation of these are internet memes.

Can you clarify what you mean by meme? I’ve noticed that you use it in a different way from how I understand it as a 23 year old.

 

[MrMagoo]

Answering at a tangent: there might genuinely be an issue for people with ME/CFS who get to hear some of the discussion on S4ME but don't have the resources to spend a long time catching up with the way things are debated.

Maybe all that can be said is that people have been chasing the ideas they like for 40 years and it got us nowhere. Good scientists confront what they find, even if they don't like it or it proves them wrong.

In any case, discovering some genetic variants could be a risk for both ME/CFS and depression (or autism, or schizophrenia) wouldn't mean the diseases or the treatments have much in common. It doesn't even mean that most people with ME/CFS carry those variants—they probably don't.

I’m related to a criminal and a talented artist.
I’m not a criminal or an artist, despite having genes in common with criminals and artists.

 

[Verity]

Neuropsychiatric is chiefly used to describe the way systemic biochemical vascular or other problems impinge on mental function.

Ah, thank you. I was indeed thinking the term was supposed to have some relationship to “psychological.”