Since this thread is ongoing, thought I'd share my experience with DNRS (dynamic neural retraining system), which I finished recently.
There are a few different packages with different things included, I did the cheapest which is just a series of videos but there are also ones that offer access to online groups or a session with a coach.
"Rounds" of DNRS is basically saying a series of mantras out loud while walking in a circle (I did it laying down) and then a calming visualization technique where you imagine a happy memory for a few minutes and are supposed narrate it aloud and then imagine a future memory where you're healthy. That's it, that's the program.
The mantras you repeat are 1: you say stop stop stop or change change change while smiling 2: you say my brain is stuck in a rut and it's sending my mind and body false messages (you're supposed do some gesture with each mantra) 3: you say due to over-firing of protective mechanisms in the limbic system, I had symptoms that in the past led to unhealthy coping behaviors (mouthful)
4: you say but now I know that is all due to cross wiring in the nervous system and I am choosing to rewire my brain 5: then you step into your "higher self" and tell yourself you're doing a great job and to keep going 6: you thank your limbic system for all its done for you so far but then say honey you were working with the wrong information and we're running a new program now.
7: you step back into your higher self and ask how you are choosing to be now 8: then you repeat your proclamation which goes something like "I am happy and healthy and strong everywhere all the time forever." Then steps 9 and 10 are the past and future visualizations.
You are supposed to do this every day for an hour for six months before you know for sure that it isn't helpful. In their defense, they do offer a partial refund after a certain period of time, which does show some degree of confidence in their product.
There are also components and steps involved, gradually increasing and exposing yourself to activities and then doing full rounds of DNRS if you're having a hard time, which could include doing them in public. And also "elevating your emotional state" which could include making a mood board full of happy pictures and dreams.
Oh and the first step is to acknowledge the role played by your brain in creating symptoms, apparently just understanding this helps people feel better, didn't for me. There were also lots of wide-eyed testimonials, some stranger than others.
The unpublished in-house study that @dave30th mentions probably comes up because it comes up in program as evidence of the theory. I remember thinking that the study sounded very unscientific and marketing-y.
Couple thoughts on all this: I don't think we (the skeptics) do ourselves any favors to attribute ALL the recovery stories from brain retraining to natural recovery or to say the person just had psychosomatic issues. That's certainly the case for some, but I think some people probably do recover from unexplained chronic illness from these sorts of things.
I don't know why, and obviously there's no good evidence for it, and there are also remarkable recovery stories from other alternative medicine things. Maybe it's just any form of change for some people opens the door to recovery, I have no idea, it should probably be studied.
The main concerns of this approach for me are 1: the hostility to biomedical science, which seems so central to this whole framework that it's almost part of the practice. 2: the hostility to patient advocates, who just by talking about how bad the illness is are causing harm by perpetuating the whole fear response and all that bullshit. 3: the fact that if it doesn't work for you they'll just say you were doing it wrong.
There are other concerns. But the pressure to do the group settings and the insular vibe of it all strikes me as social pressured brainwashing. I asked some people who claimed to recover from DNRS what actual aspect of the program worked for them and typically they point toward the group stuff and working with a coach more than any aspect of the practices. Hm?
Apologies for the long post but that was my experience and my point of view, I may say more if I think of anything.
There are a few different packages with different things included, I did the cheapest which is just a series of videos but there are also ones that offer access to online groups or a session with a coach.
"Rounds" of DNRS is basically saying a series of mantras out loud while walking in a circle (I did it laying down) and then a calming visualization technique where you imagine a happy memory for a few minutes and are supposed narrate it aloud and then imagine a future memory where you're healthy. That's it, that's the program.
The mantras you repeat are 1: you say stop stop stop or change change change while smiling 2: you say my brain is stuck in a rut and it's sending my mind and body false messages (you're supposed do some gesture with each mantra) 3: you say due to over-firing of protective mechanisms in the limbic system, I had symptoms that in the past led to unhealthy coping behaviors (mouthful)
4: you say but now I know that is all due to cross wiring in the nervous system and I am choosing to rewire my brain 5: then you step into your "higher self" and tell yourself you're doing a great job and to keep going 6: you thank your limbic system for all its done for you so far but then say honey you were working with the wrong information and we're running a new program now.
7: you step back into your higher self and ask how you are choosing to be now 8: then you repeat your proclamation which goes something like "I am happy and healthy and strong everywhere all the time forever." Then steps 9 and 10 are the past and future visualizations.
You are supposed to do this every day for an hour for six months before you know for sure that it isn't helpful. In their defense, they do offer a partial refund after a certain period of time, which does show some degree of confidence in their product.
There are also components and steps involved, gradually increasing and exposing yourself to activities and then doing full rounds of DNRS if you're having a hard time, which could include doing them in public. And also "elevating your emotional state" which could include making a mood board full of happy pictures and dreams.
Oh and the first step is to acknowledge the role played by your brain in creating symptoms, apparently just understanding this helps people feel better, didn't for me. There were also lots of wide-eyed testimonials, some stranger than others.
The unpublished in-house study that @dave30th mentions probably comes up because it comes up in program as evidence of the theory. I remember thinking that the study sounded very unscientific and marketing-y.
Couple thoughts on all this: I don't think we (the skeptics) do ourselves any favors to attribute ALL the recovery stories from brain retraining to natural recovery or to say the person just had psychosomatic issues. That's certainly the case for some, but I think some people probably do recover from unexplained chronic illness from these sorts of things.
I don't know why, and obviously there's no good evidence for it, and there are also remarkable recovery stories from other alternative medicine things. Maybe it's just any form of change for some people opens the door to recovery, I have no idea, it should probably be studied.
The main concerns of this approach for me are 1: the hostility to biomedical science, which seems so central to this whole framework that it's almost part of the practice. 2: the hostility to patient advocates, who just by talking about how bad the illness is are causing harm by perpetuating the whole fear response and all that bullshit. 3: the fact that if it doesn't work for you they'll just say you were doing it wrong.
There are other concerns. But the pressure to do the group settings and the insular vibe of it all strikes me as social pressured brainwashing. I asked some people who claimed to recover from DNRS what actual aspect of the program worked for them and typically they point toward the group stuff and working with a coach more than any aspect of the practices. Hm?
Apologies for the long post but that was my experience and my point of view, I may say more if I think of anything.
