Couldn't disruption in the cascade of physiological processes that normally occur post-exercise account for delayed PEM? A disruption in the normal "recovery" processes?
The trouble is that so many things just don't fit,
@Medfeb.
I think the mitochondrial story started with Ramsay saying that the characteristic feature of his proposed "ME" was rapid muscle fatguability. Behan then thought he found some mitchondrial shape changes. Interestingly, Behan called what we call ME/CFS CFS and thought it was centrally mediated but assumed that Ramsay had discovered something separate. And of course PEM emerged much later as a feature of 'CFS' which, with the PEM emphasised, is now ME/CFS.
A mitochondrial defect would fit with rapid fatiguability. If muscle is short of energy you can do things a few times and then come to a dead halt from weakness or pain. People with ME/CFS do complain of rapid fatiguability but that is a quite different issue from PEM, which Maree neatly summarised for AfME. Interestingly, a CPET ought to be a good way to pick up fatiguability but what is reported is a fairly normal output on day 1 and reduced maximal oxygen uptake on day 2, not a dead halt. It seems that at least the people who have had CPET studies did not have rapid fatiguability.
There is also the fact that Maureen's patients had very similar initial CPET results to sedentary controls. So it seems that muscle is OK most of the time in these people and if there is a problem it is only after exercise. But people with ME/CFS complain of difficulty doing things all the time.
A further peculiarity is that the Maureen's results for mean and women were opposite. One had more of some proteins and the other had less of other proteins. So these proteins would not provide a consistent explanation for PEM. It seems a stretch to suggest that PEM has a quite different basis in men and women.
And again, mitochondrial or other muscle problems induced by exercise would be local to that muscle and PEM is not. From what I hear you feel terrible irrespective of which bit was used. So we are not dealing with a failure of local repair. We might be dealing with an overenthusiastic 'general housekeeping' effort that affected all muscles but then that would have to be co-ordinated centrally and would have nothing to do with lack of energy availability in a particular muscle.
The more I look at this the more a am reminded of what Mike Murphy said at the IimE conference qhere we met. He was happy to be asked to talk on his research speciality of mitochondria but there was no way that mitochondrial insufficinecy would explain the clinical picture of ME/CFS. As Dan says, we have to start with the clinical problem we want to explain. In this case things are complicated by there being two clinical problems - fatiguability and PEM. But separating them out leaves us with no basis for thinking PEM has to do with a local inaccessibility of energy in a muscle.
It is such a pity that this continues to be part of the ME/CFS advocacy folklore. People criticise me for saying there is no evidence of a mitochondrial defect as if I was being unreasonable but I am just expressing the standard physiological position. Maureen's data are intriguing but I find it hard to see how you actually fit it together to produce a useful story. The exercise physiologists seem to have gone quiet on the CPET story too.