Cochrane ME/CFS GET review temporarily withdrawn

Research on exercise for ME is controversial because it may suggest that ME is in part a psychosomatic disease - that is, a mental illness that is physically affected.
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And of course this bit is spectaculary untrue.

It's controversial because it goes against patients experiences - and the main symptom of the illness.

It's controversial - because the claims made goes against solid research, on the very bad effects exercise have on an ME-sick persons body.
 
DigitalDrifter said:
All this bad science yet Ben Goldacre remains silent on the subject.
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Because of this little tidbit, from Simon Wessely: "But before he joined the scientific establishment, Goldacre used to work for me."

So a critic of bad science refuses to criticized textbook bad science because of a personal relationship with the architect of this bad science.

That amounts to a food critic insisting that a chef's spaghetti with ketchup is fine cuisine and anyone institing otherwise is a hack.

It's gonna leave a mark once the suspension of disbelief lifts and people wonder how often Goldacre did that.
 
Esther12 said:
He's not silent, he's promoting BS:

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...-what-they-said-they-would.41627/#post-672243
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How a small, vindictive community of CFS activists prevent discussion of the disease
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Wessely's research and colleagues have held monopoly on this disease for 2 decades. How is discussion being prevented when their personal beliefs of this disease literally make up the official guidelines and are the only research being significantly funded?

Which, of course, they know is bullshit because they lie shamelessly.
 
rvallee said:
Because of this little tidbit, from Simon Wessely: "But before he joined the scientific establishment, Goldacre used to work for me."
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"
The secret of Goldacre’s early success
is simple. We love people getting it wrong. Watching people making fools of themselves is always more interesting..."

"Goldacre’s skill is to use all these examples of epic ignorance or failures to draw out important principles of how science actually works, and how statistics should be used".

has he read the paper? (ie PACE)

 
This is such a long thread, so apologies if this has already been noted before.

In the Cochrane review on page 1 it states the following selection criteria for the studies under review ...
upload_2018-11-6_23-44-27.png

Yet the 2011 paper did not claim PACE to be a controlled trial ...

https://www.s4me.info/threads/a-general-thread-on-the-pace-trial.807/page-11#post-90488

Was it legitimate to include PACE in this review?

ETA: I realise @Jonathan Edwards picked this up in another post earlier in that thread ...

https://www.s4me.info/threads/a-general-thread-on-the-pace-trial.807/page-11#post-90478

Just wondering if we are making sure to pick up on the same point this time around.
 
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Barry said:
Was it legitimate to include PACE in this review?
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I doubt it was legitimate to include any of these trials since none of them were effectively controlled. A controlled trial is a trial that is adequately controlled. My memory from reviewing this was that none could be considered controlled trials, although PACE is the one I am most familiar with.
 
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Jonathan Edwards said:
I doubt it was not legitimate to include any of these trials since none of them were effectively controlled. A controlled trial is a trial that is adequately controlled. My memory from reviewing this was that none could be considered controlled trials, although PACE is the one I am most familiar with.
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So the reviewers effectively violated their own stated selection criteria, which they stated in their paper. Doesn't seem very scientific.
 
Jonathan Edwards said:
I doubt it was not legitimate to include any of these trials since none of them were effectively controlled. A controlled trial is a trial that is adequately controlled. My memory from reviewing this was that none could be considered controlled trials, although PACE is the one I am most familiar with.
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Bit confused about doubt not legitimate. Is that a double negative or am I reading it wrong @Jonathan Edwards
 
Barry said:
This is such a long thread, so apologies if this has already been noted before.

In the Cochrane review on page 1 it states the following selection criteria for the studies under review ...
View attachment 4697

Yet the 2011 paper did not claim PACE to be a controlled trial ...

https://www.s4me.info/threads/a-general-thread-on-the-pace-trial.807/page-11#post-90488

Was it legitimate to include PACE in this review?

ETA: I realise @Jonathan Edwards picked this up in another post earlier in that thread ...

https://www.s4me.info/threads/a-general-thread-on-the-pace-trial.807/page-11#post-90478

Just wondering if we are making sure to pick up on the same point this time around.
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The statement is interesting since it says selection needs to compare with treatments including "adaptive pacing therapy" which was a treatment made up especially for the pace trial. So they appear to have looked at available trials and then written the selection criteria to pick ones they want.

You could argue that the statement they make is in its self inconsistent because it supports the use of a passive control (i.e. doing nothing) as a control which clearly is not capable of controlling for effects reporting biases and therefore not adequate.
 
Sean said:
Closer to 3 decades, starting in the late 1980s /early 90s.
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They started making those claims in the late 80s but it's not clear when they began to gain legitimacy or when the control was officially passed to them. It seems earlier than at least 2003, when they were able to have approval for FINE, a clear sign that they already had enough influence to push their beliefs.

Late 90s seems to be a turning point, when they got the insurers on board. But it'll be fascinating to read the whole story one day. A post-mortem to one of the biggest and cruelest blunders in medical history, driven by greed and hubris.
 
Lucibee said:
Just found this...
View attachment 4705
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I'm sure he's trying to make a point here but I don't see it. This is incredibly amateur work you'd expect from a first year university student.

At best it shows biomedical researchers do biomedical research and psychiatric researchers do psychiatric research.

I guess this is for his mind-body mission in life to place psychiatry as the master discipline of medicine, that the division should not be there in his opinion, even though reality says exactly the opposite.
 
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