Cognitive Behavioural Therapy for chronic fatigue and CFS: outcomes from a specialist clinic in the UK (2020) Adamson, Wessely, Chalder

rvallee said:
Right, the only way the timeline makes sense is if those were ALL the patients referred to that clinic, to account for the consecutive statement. In one clinic. This adds up to an average of 60-70 per year. For no discernible change, as no objective outcomes were used. In a population that is defined by having chronic fatigue, which is something like 10% of the adult population.
Click to expand...
Most people with fatigue will not be referred anywhere. GP's will expect to deal with it. And some would just go for diagnosis and not want CBT, so not be included.
 
Trish said:
Most people with fatigue will not be referred anywhere. GP's will expect to deal with it. And some would just go for diagnosis and not want CBT, so not be included.
Click to expand...
I meant that the target population for their "intervention" consists of essentially 10% of the adult population yet their cherry-picked clinic and intervention would barely see a client per week. The economics of this are beyond laughable. That's the standard they set by choosing "CF or CFS". That's their criteria, since they make no distinction whatsoever beyond any unexplained fatigue or the most severe bedbound ME patients, all wrapped up under the same banner of "CF or CFS".

In testing effectiveness, cost-benefit matters. The cost-benefit here are clearly disastrous, the costs involved are staggering per patient. Which is besides the point anyway since it shows no benefit to speak of anyway, and satisfaction is an entirely meaningless evaluation, lots of very satisfied clients for aged urine therapy. It remains that the conclusions are pure fiction and clearly should not have passed peer review, which there probably wasn't any.
 
I think American usage of King's English must be different. It isn't used much, but I don't think I've ever seen/read "queen's English"--maybe because we don't care about the monarch one way or the other? I have to do a survey with friends who know more about this than I do.

This is the definition of King's English from the Merriam-Webster (American) dictionary:
"standard, pure, or correct English speech or usage"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/King's English

And Kingsley Amis in 1997 published "The King's English : A Guide to Modern Usage"
I do believe you people already had a queen at that point in time.
 
I actually think 'the Queen's English' was largely used in a different context from Amis. Following the two world wars (the first probably having the greatest impact) there was a significant shift in the social role of spoken English accent because of large numbers of working class men rising in the ranks in the army so that social status became more fluid. In the 1950s and 1960s the standard trend was for people of all classes to modify their accent to fit in with a spoken norm either called BBC English or Queen's English. Nobody actually tried to speak like the Queen (who clearly had a reason for sounding above everyone else) but they tried to speak like Richard Dimbleby or Cliff Mitchelmore on BBC magazine programmes. This was a strictly spoken concept, otherwise known as RP, or Received Pronunciation.

By the 1970s there was a backlash and by the 1980s it became fashionable to make a virtue out of a regional accent. The Queen's English went back to being considered 'posh'. The reason why this series of events is specifically associated with 'the Queen's English' is I suspect the much greater social role of spoken English broadcasting with the advent of television.

Amis, on the other hand, was interested purely in written English, for which the 'King's English' was the official norm - maybe dating back to the establishment of universal school education in the nineteenth century. I have never heard people talk of 'the Queen's English' in this context.
 
Jonathan Edwards said:
I actually think 'the Queen's English' was largely used in a different context from Amis. Following the two world wars (the first probably having the greatest impact) there was a significant shift in the social role of spoken English accent because of large numbers of working class men rising in the ranks in the army so that social status became more fluid. In the 1950s and 1960s the standard trend was for people of all classes to modify their accent to fit in with a spoken norm either called BBC English or Queen's English. Nobody actually tried to speak like the Queen (who clearly had a reason for sounding above everyone else) but they tried to speak like Richard Dimbleby or Cliff Mitchelmore on BBC magazine programmes. This was a strictly spoken concept, otherwise known as RP, or Received Pronunciation.

By the 1970s there was a backlash and by the 1980s it became fashionable to make a virtue out of a regional accent. The Queen's English went back to being considered 'posh'. The reason why this series of events is specifically associated with 'the Queen's English' is I suspect the much greater social role of spoken English broadcasting with the advent of television.

Amis, on the other hand, was interested purely in written English, for which the 'King's English' was the official norm - maybe dating back to the establishment of universal school education in the nineteenth century. I have never heard people talk of 'the Queen's English' in this context.
Click to expand...
This sounds about right to me, too.
 
Just wondering about 90% satisfaction (your satisfaction guarauntee with CBT, buy now and save 20%).

Satisfaction with treatment was rated on a seven-point scale ranging from 1(very satisfied) to 7 (very dissatisfied).
Click to expand...

Very limited information on the methods for this result. I know what likely happened is the therapist, after getting to know you, asks the question are you satisfied with this process? Which is also tantamount to are you satisfied me? It's a hard thing to say your dissatified with someone's work - especially when they're nice about it and trying to help you. Even if that niceness and effort are channeled through the wrong therapy.

My question is, how can satisfaction be 90% is there is 30% drop-out?

Some patient’s reported at least a 2 point increase in fatigue (16%) indicating a deterioration, according to the measure. The final 12% reported little or no change in fatigue
Click to expand...

So, 30% dropped out. Of that those that do, 28% don't improve or get worse and you have a 90% satisfaction rate. It's just something that seems silly on it's face. And put that in the absract as a big result. It makes you laugh.
 
Last edited:
@dave30th .."but I don't think I've ever seen/read "queen's English"
Click to expand...
Sly Saint said:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/queen-s-english
Click to expand...
the Queen's English
noun [ U ]uk
the English language as it is spoken in the south of England, considered by some people as a standard of good English:
We were all taught to speak the Queen's English.
Click to expand...

"Recently making the news was a comment from Edward Heath, the Lord Privy Seal, stating that he had difficulty distinguishing the Beatles' Liverpudlian accents as "The Queen's English."
http://www.beatlesinterviews.org/db1963.1031.beatles.html
 
Last edited:
@rvallee I have a problem with the tweet from Keith Geraghty. I can't see the image of all those journal front pages, I just keep on going to the paper he's mentioned. Am I doing something stupid?
 
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0141076820951545

For anyone new I have pasted links to the relevant questionnaire scales used in the above paper that have been discussed here:

Chalder Fatigue Scale
http://www.goodmedicine.org.uk/files/assessment, chalder fatigue scale.pdf

S4ME discussion of the scale:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/explo...nic-fatigue-syndrome-1998-morriss-et-al.11065

Hospital and Anxiety & Depression Scale (HADS):
https://svri.org/sites/default/files/attachments/2016-01-13/HADS.pdf

S4ME discussion of the scale:
https://www.s4me.info/threads/the-hospital-anxiety-and-depression-scale-hads-a-discussion.10160/

Other scales used can be accessed in the Science Library (read only):
https://www.s4me.info/threads/questionnaires-and-scales-used-in-me-or-cfs-research.879/
 
This ....
The cognitive behavioural therapy intervention led to significant improvements in patients’ self-reported fatigue, physical functioning and social adjustment.
Click to expand...
... seems to be at odds with this ...
However, the lack of a control condition limits us from drawing any causal inferences, as we cannot be certain that the improvements seen are due to cognitive behavioural therapy alone and not any other extraneous variables.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom