Coronavirus - worldwide spread and control

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alex3619 said:
Very likely. Even serious medical issues are being ignored by many right now, with people turning up late into their heart attacks and strokes.
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Here in Quebec the word out is that medical specialists have not been paid, as many of their appointments for surgery, etc have been cancelled. As of now, they will be helping in the old age home which have been exploding with cases of Covid.

And on another note, Prime minister of Quebec Francois Legault stated today in his daily press conference that the govt is considering opening some things up: first to go back to work: construction workers, and then there is the issue of the children of the construction workers. The Quebec govt keeps saying that children are not severely affected, and perhaps, depending on how things look, they may open up some schools. Nothing specific has been decided yet, but Legault did say he thought schools would open before May 4th. My worry is that they think only the elderly are falling victim to this illness, but in China and Italy young people died too: nurses in their 20s, and younger folk.

This position by Quebec seems based on the fact that 89% of the deaths here have taken place in folks 60 years and over, particularly hard hit those over 70.
 
Yes keeping restrictions in place has risks (including those @alex3619 notes) and people have trouble accessing meds, and such but easing up on restrictions too soon (and without solid pragmatic plans in place) would have huge repercussions.
Do we value lives or "the economy"?
There has to be a middle ground that builds in accommodations for the vulnerable, takes into account things that weren't planned for when restrictions were first introduced, and keeps people as safe as possible....
And all accommodations needed by the vulnerable have to be kept in full force until such time as there is a safe, effective vaccine for the vulnerable. (Safety and efficacy to be determined by specialists. ---- I am not feeling confident in the FDA (US Food and Drug Administration) these days.)
 
Perrier said:
Here in Quebec the word out is that medical specialists have not been paid, as many of their appointments for surgery, etc have been cancelled. As of now, they will be helping in the old age home which have been exploding with cases of Covid.

And on another note, Prime minister of Quebec Francois Legault stated today in his daily press conference that the govt is considering opening some things up: first to go back to work: construction workers, and then there is the issue of the children of the construction workers. The Quebec govt keeps saying that children are not severely affected, and perhaps, depending on how things look, they may open up some schools. Nothing specific has been decided yet, but Legault did say he thought schools would open before May 4th. My worry is that they think only the elderly are falling victim to this illness, but in China and Italy young people died too: nurses in their 20s, and younger folk.

This position by Quebec seems based on the fact that 89% of the deaths here have taken place in folks 60 years and over, particularly hard hit those over 70.
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That is what I read in spain I believe, they are considering first allowing constructions workers back to work. My other concern is that this will lead to other people wanting to get back to work, and so on. As May comes and cases are not resolved, people who have quarentined for 6-8 weeks may not be able to resist the spring weather coupled with possible hunger and boredom. It is a very difficult situation.
 
Sasha said:
What is the rationale for wanting construction workers back to work over everything else? Does anyone know?
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I think in the UK construction work was never stopped, they’re still going to work because it’s deemed essential work. I can imagine in other countries the rationale might be then, it is “essential” work?

Edit: not the UK - it is England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Scotland has closed down construction work.
 
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Sasha said:
What is the rationale for wanting construction workers back to work over everything else? Does anyone know?
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I'm not sure, but Legault stated that there were many people who had paid for Condos and Houses and they are anxious to move into them. The other reason I just heard on radio, is that construction workers are well paid and their salaries should help their families. I seem to recall he said there were 180,000 construction workers in Quebec.(I hope I remembered the figure correctly)
 
Sasha said:
What is the rationale for wanting construction workers back to work over everything else? Does anyone know?
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Inability to work from home and some of the lowest health insurance industries as independent contractors (at least in the US). I think there is also an economic argument that unfinished projects as @Perrier noted are assets in limbo. If maintenance and repair are included, certainly some projects are essential to maintain infrastracture.
 
This has come up in earlier posts, but now the head of the British Medical Association has explicitly called on the govt to urgently investigate why BME people are dying/ in ICU in much greater numbers from coronavirus in the UK (compared to the proportion of the population).

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/10/uk-coronavirus-deaths-bame-doctors-bma

UK government urged to investigate coronavirus deaths of BAME doctors
Exclusive: Doctors’ organisation concerned at ‘disproportionate severity of infection’

“The head of the British Medical Association has called on the government to urgently investigate if and why black, Asian and minority ethnic people are more vulnerable to Covid-19, after the first 10 doctors in the UK named as having died from the virus were all BAME.

We have heard the virus does not discriminate between individuals but there’s no doubt there appears to be a manifest disproportionate severity of infection in BAME people and doctors. This has to be addressed – the government must act now.”

As well as the 10 doctors, three out of six nurses named as having died have also been BAME as was a hospital pharmacist and at least one healthcare assistant. The overall death figures in the UK have not been broken down by ethnicity but early research published this week showed that 35% of almost 2,000 patients in intensive care units were non-white.”
 
I’m thinking this could also be contributed to because of the places that have been hit. The area I live in London, with a hospital one of the worst hit hospitals, is 51% BME. I think Northwick Park (Watford), also is like 40% BME. As was said in the talk earlier, many of these areas including my town serve a population where many would be deemed vulnerable (particularly some areas..even within where I live, there’s a huge difference in poverty levels between some parts) Possibly long term health conditions may be more prevalent, and poverty is aligned with poorer health. Lots of people living in houses - overcrowding is linked to ethnic minorities much more than in white populations. In general the poorer parts of town are very densely packed together too. I think historic inequality is showing up in the fact more BME people are dying than would be expected.

Edited to add a couple of sentences.
 
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I don't know if any of you are London-based and have been reading the Evening Standard? It's published several articles critical of the UK Govt. approach by London mayoral candidate Rory Stewart, who apparently was involved with combating the Ebola epidemic, and therefore presumably has a better idea than most about how this UK outbreak should be dealt with. I'm off to bed, so don't have time to look at it now.
 
Medscape: Beaches, Lakes, and Ponds: Is COVID-19 in the water?

There is one small way the water might pose a hazard. Kimberly Prather, PhD, director of the NSF Center for Aerosol Impacts on Chemistry of the Environment, says there's a slim chance that in areas where ocean water mixes with untreated wastewater contaminated by the virus, the churn of the waves could aerosolize it, and wind could carry it back to shore. When raw sewage reaches the ocean, nearby beaches should be closed to swimmers, so the risk would be to people on the sand.
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BurnA said:
What about in the meantime. I see an easing of restrictions in May followed by an increase in cases in June.
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Easing restrictions while the virus is still circulating in the community is crazy talk.

Achieving "herd immunity" without overwhelming the medical system will take years and will still cost thousands of lives.

Sasha said:
What lockdown measures did China take that we are not taking in the UK now?
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Letting people die in their homes without testing, so that their death isn't reported as an official statistic.

Take all the numbers from China with a grain of salt.
 
Snow Leopard said:
Achieving "herd immunity" without overwhelming the medical system will take years and will still cost thousands of lives.
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Not to mention the increasing evidence for serious secondary damage in some patients to lungs and heart, and possibly neurological (?).

That stuff won't go away easily, if ever, and could be much more costly in the longer term.
 
lunarainbows said:
I think in the UK construction work was never stopped, they’re still going to work because it’s deemed essential work. I can imagine in other countries the rationale might be then, it is “essential” work?
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In Germany still everyone goes to work, only some can´t because shops, restaurants and some other things have to be closed. Restaurants though are allowed to sell their food for taking away.
 
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lunarainbows said:
I think in the UK construction work was never stopped, they’re still going to work because it’s deemed essential work. I can imagine in other countries the rationale might be then, it is “essential” work?
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England and Wales. Sites are locked down in Scotland, sadly many contractors seem to think this is a short term situation .

Most contractors are managers or have 1- 2 trades, the majority of construction is based on subcontractors who are self employed. This is the result of cutting overheads to be competitive and maximise profit. There is the very real possibility that a lot of the subbies / working teams won't be back if this drags out for months. There is not the resilience that there was pre 2008. ( not here at least)
 
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Amw66 said:
England and Wales. Sites are locked down in Scotland, sadly many contractors seem to think this is a short term situation .

Most contractors are managers or have 1- 2 trades, the majority of construction is based on subcontractors who are self employed. This is the result of cutting overheads to be competitive and maximise profit. There is the very real possibility that a lot of the subbies / working teams won't be back if this drags out for months. There is not the resilience that there was pre 2008. ( not here at least)
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Sorry, shall edit UK to England and Wales!

I think Northern Ireland may be operating also: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52020326
 
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