Covid-19 vaccines and vaccinations

So if the pfizer vaccine didn't/doesn't stop transmission what did it do?

As someone who was given a Pfizer booster vaccine recently I would like to know. It made me feel terrible for a few days and I suspect all it actually did was give me Covid.

 

Another good tweet thread reponse to this so-called "bombshell" about transmission.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1580226291214667776

 

I understand why so many people didn't want vaccines because the number of different stories that have been told over the last almost three years is just mind-boggling. People were led to believe that getting vaccinated would stop or massively reduce the risk of the disease being passed on to others. And now we are told that transmission wasn't even tested by Pfizer? Does "transmission" of a virus have a different meaning to doctors than it does to non-scientists, non-doctors and non-politicians?

 

I am perturbed that Government messaging was clear that people should be vaccinated not just for their own benefit but for that of others too, to prevent transmission to the vulnerable.

Health and care workers lost their jobs for refusing to take the vaccine. People were encouraged to believe that they were doing it for others too as responsible members of society.

I am highly vulnerable and cannot have any more vaccines. (I have had three). I had believed that I was safer when people around me were vaccinated. Government messaging was very clear that this was the case. I care that I was misled.

 

The entire UK government messaging was get your vaccine to protect others, we were shielding and avoiding spread again to protect our most vulnerable. If it doesn't even reduce transmission, which I think in hindsight it obviously doesn't, then it doesn't fullfill the goal. I remember the reports on the initial tests suggesting it was 95% effective at stopping people even getting Covid19 and yet again that hasn't played it. It seems to have reduced severe disease chance maybe but that is mixed in with the fact so many have died and been disabled and those vulnerable are having to shield themselves. The vaccines didn't turn out any where near as good as the trials suggested and they definitely haven't stopped the pandemic rolling on, they don't really do enough to stop long covid. The bi-variant test was something like 450 people and they didn't test the impact of the virus just the presence of the antibodies.

Whether some people think its a materially important lie or not we were very much lied about around the vaccine and so much so that social media wont even allow people to really talk about this now given the policy they have put in place such is the strength of the propaganda push on it. Its very concerning the state and medicine lied to people, it further erodes trust.

 

Study now published, merged thread

Use of Cardiopulmonary Exercise Testing to Evaluate Long COVID-19 Symptoms in Adults A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis


Key Points

Question Is exercise capacity reduced more than 3 months after SARS-CoV-2 infection among those with long COVID-19 (LC) symptoms compared with recovered individuals without symptoms, and what patterns of limitations on cardiopulmonary exercise testing (CPET) are common?

Findings In this systematic review and meta-analysis of 38 studies comprising 2160 participants, exercise capacity was reduced by 4.9 mL/kg/min among individuals with symptoms consistent with LC compared with individuals without symptoms more than 3 months after SARS-CoV-2 infection. Findings among individuals with exertional intolerance suggest that deconditioning, dysfunctional breathing, chronotropic incompetence, and abnormal peripheral oxygen extraction and/or use may contribute to reduced exercise capacity.

Meaning These findings suggest that CPET may provide insight into the mechanisms for reduced exercise capacity among individuals with LC.

Abstract
Importance Reduced exercise capacity is commonly reported among individuals with COVID-19 symptoms more than 3 months after SARS-CoV-2 infection (long COVID-19 [LC]). Cardiopulmonary exercise testing (CPET) is the criterion standard to measure exercise capacity and identify patterns of exertional intolerance.

Objectives To estimate the difference in exercise capacity among individuals with and without LC symptoms and characterize physiological patterns of limitations to elucidate possible mechanisms of LC.

Data Sources A search of PubMed, EMBASE, Web of Science, preprint servers, conference abstracts, and cited references was performed on December 20, 2021, and again on May 24, 2022. A preprint search of medrxiv.org, biorxiv.org, and researchsquare.com was performed on June 9, 2022.

Study Selection Studies of adults with SARS-CoV-2 infection more than 3 months earlier that included CPET-measured peak oxygen consumption (V̇o2) were screened independently by 2 blinded reviewers; 72 (2%) were selected for full-text review, and 35 (1%) met the inclusion criteria. An additional 3 studies were identified from preprint servers.

Data Extraction and Synthesis Data extraction was performed by 2 independent reviewers according to the PRISMA reporting guideline. Data were pooled using random-effects models.

Main Outcomes and Measures Difference in peak V̇o2 (in mL/kg/min) among individuals with and without persistent COVID-19 symptoms more than 3 months after SARS-CoV-2 infection.

Results A total of 38 studies were identified that performed CPET on 2160 individuals 3 to 18 months after SARS-CoV-2 infection, including 1228 with symptoms consistent with LC. Most studies were case series of individuals with LC or cross-sectional assessments within posthospitalization cohorts. Based on a meta-analysis of 9 studies including 464 individuals with LC symptoms and 359 without symptoms, the mean peak V̇o2 was −4.9 (95% CI, −6.4 to −3.4) mL/kg/min among those with symptoms with a low degree of certainty. Deconditioning and peripheral limitations (abnormal oxygen extraction) were common, but dysfunctional breathing and chronotropic incompetence were also described. The existing literature was limited by small sample sizes, selection bias, confounding, and varying symptom definitions and CPET interpretations, resulting in high risk of bias and heterogeneity.

Conclusions and Relevance The findings of this systematic review and meta-analysis study suggest that exercise capacity was reduced more than 3 months after SARS-CoV-2 infection among individuals with symptoms consistent with LC compared with individuals without LC symptoms, with low confidence. Potential mechanisms for exertional intolerance other than deconditioning include altered autonomic function (eg, chronotropic incompetence, dysfunctional breathing), endothelial dysfunction, and muscular or mitochondrial pathology.

Open access, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2797203

 

The pandemic continued to roll on b/c many under developed countries weren't vaccinated early and it allowed new variants to continue to circulate was my understanding.

 

I feel I need to get another vaccine (4th), but I'm a little more cautious now and afraid that this is the one that is going to set me back.

 

I can't even get a response from my GP on the matter, they are ghosting me as I request it. Can't have it even though I want it.

 

@BrightCandle

Why do you think that is?

Can you go to a vaccine clinic and get a jab?

 

I will never be able to explain the mind of doctors, all I have is "systemic prejudice" as an explanation. My GP is my local clinic unfortunately now so I don't have the option to sidestep them like I did before I moved.

 

From many comments I have seen from real medical professionals, there is a view out there that being infected but not feeling symptoms is not being infected even if you transmit the virus to someone else, because they seem to think that it's impossible to transmit a virus in those circumstances. They make assumptions and stick their fingers in their ears going lalalala.

Not coincidentally, strong affinity with the crowd that thinks that regular infections are good and not not only harmless but actually beneficial. That, in fact, people need regular infections or our immune system becomes weak. The belief that we need regular infections, as, I guess?, we don't otherwise interact with germs. I'm loss on the reasoning here, there isn't any.

I don't think medicine in a good spot about immunity, way too much confidence in so little real knowledge. So many assumptions, said with high smugness, and no one even seems able to learn something from it. It's absurd. Medicine is genuinely in a state of crisis here and they can't even see it. The model of rote memorization has clearly passed the limits of its usefulness a while ago.

 

It still makes sense for healthcare workers to be protected from severe illness, their exposition on the job demands it. But the messaging was all politics and PR and ended up doing far more harm than good.

Lies catch up. That's why public health crises are better handled telling the whole truth. That's the playbook. Nobody follows the playbook. It's all about managing people's imagined fears and anxieties, being sure of one thing only: people can't handle simple truths and people who know better have to lie in order to protect people from themselves.

Which is why things are so bad, but, you know, escalation of commitment, ego protection and all that.

 

It’s amazing how they think they can just rewrite history and claim they never said any of the false, exaggerated and downright hysterical and menacing messages they propagandised the public with 24/7 in 2021. I’m old enough to remember 2021, the year we were told by every grifter politician, public health official, media personality, celebrity etc., down to the lowliest Instagram “influencer” with 5000 followers, that we must get these shots because they will help end the pandemic by stopping transmission and protecting not just yourself from catching it but OTHERS. Anyone who questioned these statements was banned from social media for spreading “disinformation”, promoting “vaccine hesitancy” and wanting to kill grandma. Cramer was out there on TV calling for the US military to be deployed to round up the unvaccinated and have them forcibly vaccinated precisely because the government falsely claimed that the unvaccinated were the ones spreading the virus and killing others.

 

Possibly, when at school, people shouldn't be told bare faced lies about such things?

I was told that vaccines stop viruses from replicating (not directly, they setup the immune system so that it recognises them, eats them, and therefore, having been eaten, don't do so well at virus singles bars and so don't replicate), which means that as they can't replicate, they can't cause symptoms (directly), and therefore can't spread.

Something that doesn't do this, is not a vaccine, or so what I was taught would suggest.

It might be a treatment, something used to remove/reduce symptoms, but not a vaccine.

Famous vaccines have operated in such a way as to do little for most receiving them, but to cut transmission so effectively that diseases have died out, or almost so.

This was my, and it seems everyone else's understanding, based on what was in the media.

So now, I have no idea, literally no idea, WTF a vaccine is, what it's supposed to do, as it aint what I was told, by anyone, including the WHO.

 

I was never aware of the 'vaccinate to protect others' message being about transmission. Only that if it reduced the chances of people needing hospital treatment than those who needed them would have access to ventilators, nurses etc.

However my carer ecrtainly believed it reduced transmission, as she wasnt too thrilled when i didnt drop the insistance on her wearing an N95 around me once she was double jabbed.

Its funny there were a lot of different messages going around.

 

In COVID hearing, Pfizer director admits: vaccine was never tested on preventing transmission.

"Get vaccinated for others" was what they advised.

My understanding was more about wearing an N95 mask to prevent transmission.

 

https://www.science.org/content/article/how-sars-cov-2-battles-our-immune-system

If you are interested in the virus, this is a pretty spectacular article in Science (the magazine).