Graded exercise therapy compared to activity management for paediatric [CFS/ME]: pragmatic randomized controlled trial, 2024, Gaunt, Crawley et al.

Discussion in 'ME/CFS research' started by SNT Gatchaman, Mar 2, 2024.

  1. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Does this rewriting of Activity Management protocol over time represent an attempt to escape the NICE rejection of GET? Certainly I can’t see that this Graded Cognitive Exercise Therapy could in real life be anything but GET.

    This is not even an attempt to disguise ‘pacing up’ as pacing as understood by patients. Does Prof Crawley envisage this leading to recommendations for clinical intervention or is it a desperate attempt for this study not to appear a complete failure?
     
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  2. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is a complete mish-mash of various things with zero coherence.
    It's the complete opposite of the "all other things being equal" in scientific studies. It's as close to a naturalistic study as you can get. It's not controlled, they still call it that for some reason. It's highly biased. It compares a useless treatment model with something that isn't a treatment model, but can't be considered a neutral or sham control. There is nothing to conclude from this study, which is basically the norm in biopsychosocial land. They simply make their experiments so convoluted and arbitrary that it's impossible to evaluate, compare or conclude anything. Which allows them to conclude whatever they want, as here they suggest that GET probably failed because it wasn't intensive enough.

    And nearly a decade for this turd. All they do is waste time while they dick around with their junk and us patients continue to rot away or die. It's all so outrageous but it just goes on and on anyway.
     
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  3. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Oy! I guess we have a lot to look forward to!!
     
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  4. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    But does that matter to these people? As long as both therapies were equally useless, anyone should be able to get the jobs as therapists, since skills won't matter. That will lead to increased employment. I think we can all agree that increased employment is good.
     
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  5. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Surely they will be superceded by an App anyway especially for younger patient group.

    Obviously as with PACE manual the source of content and the ‘model’ for any app will be very important.
     
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  6. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, a few people (probably people like Crawley) make loads of money selling an app to health authorities.

    People with ME/CFS get given the app that tells them to find their baseline and then gradually increase their activity. It's less harmful than the face to face therapy as it's easier to ignore.

    The low level therapists lose their jobs.

    The health authority feels ok, as they are offering a service that they can point to. 'ME/CFS? sure, we have an app made specifically for those people.' It's really cheap. And probably some PROMs developed with the MEA show that it works as well as GET and Activity Management, and the 10% of patients who are still using it at 6 months love it.
     
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  7. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is there any info on how this was explained to trial participants and their families ?
     
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  8. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Such an app may even help some people, though not as intended. Every now and again I come across people with ME on social media who say things like: ‘When things start getting bad I do two weeks of GET and that sorts things out’. My interpretation of this, given talking of two weeks of GET is nonsensical, is that such people use the concept of using the idea of reducing activity to a stable baseline and stop there, making it effectively a tool to reduce activity and pace, not a tool to ultimately increase activity.

    Having this in app form leaves the person freer to adapt it into something useful, rather than having a therapist taking them back to the unhelpful ‘correct way to do it’.
     
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  9. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This
     
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  10. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

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    Thanks for the laugh :)
     
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  11. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last edited: Mar 3, 2024
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  12. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  13. Ash

    Ash Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I wouldn’t be surprised if this isn’t already available in my corner of this green and pleasant land. They were ahead of game here with IAPT badly photocopied work sheets replacing counselling decades ago.

    Edit: decades maybe a slight exaggeration, but at least a deal more than a decade.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2024
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  14. cassava7

    cassava7 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The interesting takeaway for me is that this is evidence that contradicts the argument from the opponents to the NICE guideline that GET can be offered because it isn’t done with fixed increments in clinical practice (i.e. the PACE trial version of GET as described in the guideline) — this trial shows that any variant of GET is ineffective and can cause deterioration (since “activity management” is a “softer” form of GET rebranded under another name).

    It is also staggering that with a mean of just 4 GET sessions, 27% of the participants in the intervention group reportedly deteriorated. Surely, any healthcare professional reading this should want to avoid GET.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2024
  15. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Evidence to add to our thread on why GET is bad for people with ME. Perhaps we should be asking Crawley et all to sign our petition on withdrawing the current Cochrane Exercise Review as they have provided evidence towards the harm it can do.
     
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  16. Sid

    Sid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It takes very little to harm people with GET. There have been anecdotal reports of people who went from moderate to severe after just one session.
     
  17. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    https://www.bristol.ac.uk/academic-...arch/cfsme/magenta/magenta-trial/magenta-pis/

    MAGENTA study documents for participants

    Patient information sheets


    All our patient information sheets have received ethical approval and were developed with support from with the CFS/ME Patient Advisory Group (PAG). The information sheets have been designed with the patient's age in mind and as such we have three different versions which can be viewed below:

    Patient Information Sheets for Participants Aged 8- 11 Years of Age PIS 8-11 (PDF, 270kB)

    Patient Information Sheets for Participants Aged 12- 17 Years of Age ‌PIS 12-17 (PDF, 354kB)

    Parent/ Carer Information Sheet ‌PIS parent/ relative (PDF, 376kB)



    Patient Information Sheets for Participants Aged 12- 17 Years of Age ‌PIS 12-17 (PDF, 354kB)


    "In addition you will get either Activity Management or Graded Exercise Therapy.

    "Activity Management

    If you are in this group you will have a detailed assessment of the activity you do. This includes thinking activity such as school work, homework, time on the computer and screens, reading and hobbies that require concentration and physical activity such as walking or PE. We call MAGENTA PIS 12-17 31082016 v0.9 3 this high energy activity. We will ask you to record your activity on paper or our iPhone app “ActiveME”. We will then help you find your “baseline” activity which is the average amount of activity that you can do each day. When you have found your baseline activity, we will help you increase this by 10-20% each week. This is called activity management. Graded Exercise Therapy If you are in this group you will receive a detailed physical assessment including how far you can walk in 2 minutes and how many times you can move from sitting to standing in one minute. This will help us set a safe exercise programme. You will be asked about the exercise you do each day and will be helped to find you exercise baseline. The baseline is the average amount of exercise you do each day. It will be less than you do on a good day. When you have found your baseline, we will ask you to slowly increase you exercise. When you are able to do 30 minutes each day, we will increase the intensity of your exercise. You will be asked to record exercise using either charts or the iPhone app ActiveME. You will not be asked to record other activities, only your exercise. To make sure you do not over do your exercise, we will ask you to use a heart rate monitor.

    "What is the difference between Activity Management and Graded Exercise Therapy?

    "Activity Management will mainly be working on activities that take up most of the day like school work. It does not focus on exercise or include a physical assessment or heart rate monitoring. Graded Exercise Therapy gives detailed advice about exercise with an assessment of your exercise and uses a heart rate monitor. Graded Exercise Therapy will not ask you to monitor other activities such as school work."


    From the info sheet for parent/carers:

    "Children in both groups will be asked to wear an accelerometer. This is a small box that they will wear on a band around their hips. Lots of young people have used these to measure exercise. We may ask your child to record when they wear it and when they take it off. In addition, your child will get either Activity Management or Graded Exercise Therapy Activity Management If your child is in this group they will have a detailed assessment of the total activity they do each day. This will mainly be thinking activity such as school work, homework, time on the computer and screens, reading and hobbies that require concentration. It will also include the amount of time spent doing physical activity such as walking or PE but we will not ask for any detail of exercise or for this to be recorded separately. We call all of this “high energy activity”.

    "We will ask your child to record this on paper or our iPhone app “ActiveME”. We will then help them find their “baseline” activity which is the average amount of activity that they do each day. When your child has found their baseline, we will help them increase their activity by 10-20% each week.

    "Graded Exercise Therapy

    "If your child is in this group your child will receive a detailed physical assessment including how far they can walk in 2 minutes and how many times they can move from sitting to standing in one minute. This will help us set a safe exercise programme. Your child will be asked about the exercise they do each day and will be helped to find their exercise baseline. The baseline is the average amount of exercise they do each day. It will be less than they do on a good day. When they have found their baseline, we will ask them to slowly increase their exercise. When they are able to do 30 minutes each day, we will increase the intensity. They will be asked to record exercise using either charts or the iPhone app ActiveME. They will not be asked to record other activities, only their exercise. To make sure your child does not over do the exercise, we will ask them to use a heart rate monitor.

    "What is the difference between Activity Management and Graded Exercise Therapy?

    "Activity Management will work on the total amount of activity done each day. This is mainly thinking activities. It does not provide specific advice about exercise include a physical assessment or heart rate monitoring. Graded Exercise Therapy provides specific advice about exercise with a physical assessment and uses heart rate monitoring."
     
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  18. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    So both are forms of GET, just done differently. What a ridiculous study.

    The GET design looks like it's straight from the PACE GET manuals, with only the specific 'exercise' controlled, the rest of the day left to them to manage as they can. And as in PACE, the GET group had heart rate monitoring for the exercise sessions, and the other group didn't.

    Like PACE APT, the Activity Management, AM, uses diaries and doesn't allow heart rate monitors, but unlike PACE APT, AM is a form of GET with added overall activity each week in increments.
     
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  19. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    Indeed. How come that is not setting off alarm bells?
     
  20. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    An ethical committee approving this is perhaps unsurprising, but, even though I was aware that Prof Crawley had a long-standing hand-picked PAG, it still seems disconcerting that patients or parents/guardians would support this research.

    However, we also see the opaque Sussex and Kent ME/CFS Society, very much an outlier amongst local groups, with a disconcerting number of geographically scattered medical advisors including Bristol based Prof Crawley, supporting use of exercise based intervention.
     
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