NICE ME/CFS guideline - Stakeholder submissions to the draft and NICE responses - published 29th October 2021 - discussion thread

Is there a general assumption in medicine, that in terms of the symptoms being treated, the worst effect on those symptoms the intervention can have, is no effect at all? And that any harms resulting from the intervention will therefore not include worsening of symptoms being treated?

Because this is assuredly what the BPS crowd do, and it is astonishingly ignorant and arrogant ... and indeed incredibly harmful; they blame the patient instead.

As I've said in the past here, an intervention should be monitored for all and any effects it might have, including both +ve and -ve effects on the very symptoms the interventions is treating. It should never be assumed an intervention can do no worse to symptoms than have no effect on them. True for any intervention whatsoever. Don't assume - check!

 

That may not necessarily be the case if it was commissioned on mass or turned into a CD or some other nonsense. Don't forget it can cure cancer MS and everything else too. That's a big patient population overall. Government contracts are lucrative because the captive audience is huge and also you don't need to constantly go chasing new customers they are just handed to you by order of the state. They would probably use NHS venues also that are already paid for by the public purse at fixed costs. Its basically easy and regular money.No doubt they would just use the existing salaried staff in the NHS also.

 

After charging the NHS for the LP training courses for practitioners?

 

Well what I meant was they could easily "train" nurses and GPs etc how to carry out the magic from the LP for example and get them to deliver it in groups of large people or in a five minute sessions one to one, just like they deliver CBT. As I understand it often they don't use degree level Counsellors now they have their own 6 week training course in becoming a "CBT therapist". They had a massive advertising drive for their course a few years ago looking to "train people to become NHS accredited CBT therapists".

I am pretty sure Phil Parker would sell them the licence to his copyrighted magic for a couple of million quid, he wouldn't need to bother with the pyramid selling scheme anymore or maybe he could continue to it on a moonlighting basis privately on top.

 

Not sure if someone is keeping track as he's finding a lot. Keith Geraghty is poring through the submissions and it's basically like shooting quackery in a barrel. Honestly this may just about be the most incompetent set of contributions ever put together by professionals in an official capacity. They are thoroughly confused and ignorant of every single issue and make every point to that effect, just dripping with ignorance.

How these people actually got the idea that they know anything about this is incredible. If this were a contribution of climate scientists about climate change, to get the same degree of ignorance would need them to be written directly by industry lobbyists, emphasizing solar activity or other factors and rejecting any statement of human activity being a factor.

In a way it's good that this is all public record. It will be an incredible lesson in hubris, if someone ever gets the idea that learning lessons from failure is a good thing to do.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1456336355160739842

 

And there's the fact that RCPsych completely misused their references. Nearly every one said the opposite of what they claimed, or had nothing to do with ME. It's either ignorance, incompetence or deceit. Possibly all three.

 

They're not used to people actually checking their homework, are they? Can't decide whether it's hilarious or just terrifying.

 

Terrifying.

 

That's because they think that the only people who are qualified to check their homework are themselves (or their mates!)

 

https://twitter.com/user/status/1457175761048178689

https://twitter.com/user/status/1457249089586929664


Edited to add this from Wikipedia about Simon Singh:

 

This is Michael Marshall who Singh shared Brian’s blog with:
https://twitter.com/user/status/1320353195802218496


This is the Good Thinking Society that he tagged:
https://goodthinkingsociety.org/

Of course it was Jim Al Khalili who did that sycophantic The Life Scientific interview with SW. And I believe the SMC was supportive of Simon Singh when was he was sued by the BCA. I hope personal connections and loyalties won’t cloud their judgment and prevent them digging deeper or speaking out, as appears to have happened so often before.