Oxaloacetate

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International: IACFS/ME - International Association for CFS/ME (next event: Virtual Conference August 19-21 2021)


Is this a new thing? Didn’t we hear about this before from some Norwegians making spinach smoothies?

https://twitter.com/user/status/1429143664081575939

 

You are correct, my bad. So we could eat Oxaloacetate in addition to our spinach smoothies.

 

Here is the deal with oxaloacetate, it is one compound needed for of the citric acid cycle. Now the way it has been presented to us, it is currently unpublished, we do not have much data on effectiveness and safety but apparently you can buy it as a supplement.
It may or may not work unless there are other deficiencies in the TCA cycle that prevents functioning that generates energy, and unless there are issues in other body systems.
I have had metabolomic testing about 5 or 6 years ago and one of the problem i seemed to have was at the succinate level, but of course this is not a clinical test, it was a research test and of course there were no recommendations made to me.

 

I'm sorry to ask, but what is the name of this oxaloacetate supplement we can buy?
I can't find it through google.

Note: I just want to read more about it.

 

I don't understand this. If most of our food energy goes through the citric acid cycle I would guess that we make use of about 500 gram of oxaloacetate molecules a day. Yes, part of the molecule gets recycled but if there was a block to making oxaloacetate that needed topping up with oxaloacetate then it seems to me you would need tens if not hundreds of grams to make a difference. 500 milligrams is not going to make any difference at all. This is not like a vitamin or coenzyme, it is energy substrate, which is used in bulk.

I strongly suspect this is pseudoscience like the rest of the stuff being posted from this conference.

 

$50 for 30 capsules @100mg. So if you take 500 mg per day, bottle will last only 6 days.

 

My Oxaloacetate levels on my OAT is at -33% (below normal range).

Taking a supplement does zero to correct this.

Dr. Kaufman is suffering from chronic recycling syndrome.

 

Couldn’t there be another metabolite, that is a precursor to oxaloacetate, that is cheaper?

 

Well what about potato?

 

Moved post

This subject below is the one that I saw posted about elsewhere.

I wasn’t aware of PwME supplementing with Oxaloacetate. PwME are now discussing doing so based on this information.

As reported in the tweets Dr. Kaufman reported no adverse effects.

Some have expressed concern that supplementation could cause kidney stones, and I have heard 2nd or 3rd hand that there’s been one report of that occurring from a PwME.

Searching online I’ve read that other possible side effects could be insomnia or gastrointestinal upset.

 

I'm going to assume that the participants had all their metabolites tested, including Oxaloacetate before taking the supplement?

I had other metabolites tested on my OAT, and there are 3 others at the beginning of the citric acid cycle that were below normal range.

 

More info on Cort's blog here: https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2...ndrial-supplement-chronic-fatigue-long-covid/

Looks like this is probably just sourced from the conference talk? I kept looking for a link to a publication, but didn't find one.

 

May I ask where you can get that tested?

 

@Chestnut tree

My blood and urine tests were sent to a lab in Canada.

 

Oxaloacetate pills are hard to find, I have only seen Benagene brand available and it gets expensive really quickly as someone pointed out. I had more or less the same results or actually better just by consuming spinach (aka the Popeye protocol). Spinach contains oxalic acid or oxalate, so not exactly the same compound, but you get around 1000 mg oxalic acid in 100 gram spinach, which costs a couple of dollars or less.

 

Was that through a dr or can you do this yourself?

 

The test panels were ordered by my functional/integrative doctor 20 years ago. He worked at a biomedical clinic at the time that offered these tests. I'm not sure if patients were able to order the test panel on their own but I just looked at their website and they are no longer offering these test and now offering "body chemical balancing" for thyroid and adrenals and "gut rehab" The biochemist who owns the clinic does the consultations.

I'm sorry, but these tests sound like a business for people who are desperate.

 

I reread some of what I found out 1,5 years ago regarding this, and Trish is right, this is from a professor in metabolism, and MD, quote

“I'm not aware of any enzyme or pathway that produces oxalate from oxaloacetate. Moreover, oxaloacetate is produced readily in our metabolism; it is very unlikely that eating will
significantly change the overall level.”

So this doesn’t give confidence that oxaloacetate can help, neither from what Jonathan Edwards say.

Regarding the spinach smoothies, that is much more dangerous for us than oxaloacetate, according to the prof. above. Kidney stones and kidney failure are some of the possibilities. But then again, the Bohne drinkable/spinach smoothie is four times a day. So no wonder it is warned against.